Credit scoring, experian & cancelling memberships?

savagej

izools wrote: »

Good explanantion - although you didn't touch on neural net scoring techniques like those employed by Lloyds TSB

I wonder what James Jones has to say about this

LOL, Bug*er all is my guess.

Yep, machine learning is a very interesting subject, you know your stuff :T They also find more missing previous addresses than any other bank I know, any idea why? Are they paying Experian for something extra do you think?

Cheers

James

izools

savagej wrote: »

LOL, Bug*er all is my guess.

Yep, machine learning is a very interesting subject, you know your stuff :T They also find more missing previous address than any other bank I know, any idea why? Are they paying Experian for something extra do you think?

Cheers

James

Edit: maybe James will offer me a job (sic).

I am fully qualified and I started using Experian's systems when they were still CCN as an employee of the Midland Bank. I used to work on the card desk in a branch, putting cards into the card holders and then in the post (before the days of automation, boring as hell), pulling in students and asking to see their cheque guarantee card and cutting it in half with a giant pair of scissors based on a report generate by the computer (the best part of the jobs, the look on their faces was a "kodak moment" to say the least) and credit scoring people for Access cards (by adding up very simple scores), then checking CCN to see if they had any adverse.

I then went on to work for the competition, Equifax, but I can't tell you what I did as otherwise I would have to kill you, lol, and then what became the National Australia Group and quite a few others after that, all in the area of credit decision making by computer programming.

Wow, quite a history you have there.

I can imagine the look on people's faces when cutting their card in half. Priceless. I presume this was back when they had a separate Switch card and CGC? Did Lloyds ever do that?

In regards to previous addresses, I don't think LTSB get more information, rather they act on what they get more accurately.

When my OH got a Vanquis card several years ago to start rebuilding he blatantly lied about time at address and all his other addresses were linked, including ER data proving he'd lied but Vanquis were still happy to appove him, guess some creditors simply don't act on the data they have.

savagej

It was just at the time of the inception of Switch, so you had a CGC which was the old sign on the front one and some banks including the Midland had not gotten around to updating the cards yet but they still worked as Switch cards. So you went into Sainsbury's and there was a picture up of the front of all of the cards they took, including ones without any Switch logo. Then they brought in the 3-in-1 card, as the CGC was technically a 2-in-1 card, at that point, all ATM cards were separate.

Lloyds had the CGC that you signed on the front too and then this ran along side (but changed to the sign on the back with the Shakespear logo on the front at that point) the 3-in-1 Visa Debit Card, or Payment Card as they like to call it. Some people were only offered a CGC as it had a lower limit £50, than the Payment Card which were £100 as far as I recall, although Barclays did do a Connect card with either £50 or £100 CGC. Before that Barclays only GCG was a Barclaycard they never did or have done a separate CGC.

Interesting about the links, could they all be seen on his credit file? As I have seen cases where they are missing from the credit file, as you would see it, but Lloyds find them presumably using Experian's Detect. I don't know if they then add the links, as it states on Experian's literature that only you or your bank when you advise them of another address will it be linked. I once called up and asked if one found by Detect would be linked and they point blank refused to tell me, fair enough I suppose.

Edit: What I find interesting is all of the information about the date of the first debit card launched in the UK. It was Barclays Connect, or it is touted as that. But, the Co-operative Bank issued Electron Cards well before that. I have tried all over Google to find a picture of one, but nada. They were the same non-embossed card and they have the Visa logo on the top but the hologram was a picture of a dove and the Electron sign was an "e" in the same style as the "c" or "p" on Visa Classic and Premier. These cards looked like you had made them in your spare room but they worked at an ATM (and all Visa ATM's) and if you could get a cashier to swipe it through their till or through a PDQ machine it worked as long as it was either below the floor limit or you had the money in your account if it was above the floor limit. They also worked in all British Railway stations as the floor limit was £150. It was because then all Visa card numbers were considered to be equal, they started with a 4, had 13 or 16 digits and the check digit on the end added up the same for all card types, but it was based on whether or not you could convince the person it was indeed a real Visa card.

So in fact the first Visa Debit cards in the UK were Co-op Bank Electron Cards.

Someone on here must be old enough to remember them, they were silver in colour.

Second Edit: As well, before I worked in the bank at 16 the link card could be used in some Co-op stores as debit card. I recall being in the Co-op in Huddersfield with my Abbeylink card. I was 15 and looked like I was 9, I tried to use the card and it got declined. I was then stopped by the store secuirty woman (who it turns out had given the wink to the cashier to cancel the transaction), who asked to see my card and then proceeded to interogate me about it and repeatedly asked me what my middle name was! She let me go in the end with the card. Next day I called up to asked what had happened and was told about the security guard, I informed them you could have an Abbeylink card from the age of 13 and they apologied profusely and invited me to come back and this time they would let me buy whatever it was and "give me a cup of tea"!!!

YorkshireBoy

savagej wrote: »

The score is a number made up... <snip>

Those first seven words will do for me thanks.

savagej

Schoolboy error on my part, eh! Who said "comprised of"? lol, I won't bother with the edit now

savagej

It wont become worth the energy to light the pixels on the screen until such times as the affordabilty and over-indebtness scores are published too. But, that is not going to happen as if you know that you will be declined on the basis of either of those then you wont apply and Experian et al wont get their fee for telling the lender the same thing they told you nor all of the other money, sorry data, they capture during the application process.

savagej

I found out that the next thing that Experian might be adding to credit files is your payment history with your landlord if they are in the social rented sector. It apparently helps many tenants who would otherwise be declined. I wonder if they pay the landlord for the data, as otherwise what do they get out of it? Will the local council start credit checking people for rent arrears before giving them a council house? It is being tested by Experian and Big Issue Invest.

Dr_Cuckoo3

savagej wrote: »

I found out that the next thing that Experian might be adding to credit files is your payment history with your landlord if they are in the social rented sector. It apparently helps many tenants who would otherwise be declined. I wonder if they pay the landlord for the data, as otherwise what do they get out of it? Will the local council start credit checking people for rent arrears before giving them a council house? It is being tested by Experian and Big Issue Invest.

British Gas register payment history with Experian and this has "helped" their customers strengthen their credit profile

sshnuke wrote: »

Last year I made a few late payments and BG have recorded this with Experian as missed payments. This has actually ruined my credit rating.

At no time on the phone when requesting a delay to the payment has anyone ever said to me that it would affect my credit rating. I now know that this is implied in the red letter.

Has this happened to anyone else? Were you able to get them to amend your credit file. With the double whammy of a credit crunch and gas prices sky high i think BG are kicking their customers when their down.

I'm not a British Gas customer however the letter they sent to customers does not mention any benefit to the customer :think:

"Dear...

Like many other companies British Gas share information with credit reference agencies to help us manage our customer accounts. Between now and October the level of information we share will be increased.

What this change means for you.
We wanted to let you know about the level of information we share because it could have implications for your credit status.

If you have an overdue balance when this change comes into effect this may be reflected in your credit report. Other credit providers and lenders will be able to see details on your report, so late payments or missed payments may make it more difficult to obtain credit in the future and affect the terms on which credit is offered, such as the interesticon rates you pay........"


I can understand why housing associations would be in favour of reporting late payments to credit reference agencies , visit "deprived" areas and you will see posters on buses and bus stops advising of the consequences of not paying rent , unplanned pregnancy , obesity , smoking etc :idea:



What are the rent arrears statistics in social housing ?

"Rent Arrears
• At the end of March 2010, a third of all social housing tenants (73,460) were in arrears. The highest proportion of tenancy arrears were in Ceredigion (60 per cent) and the lowest in Powys (20 per cent)."

http://wales.gov.uk/docs/statistics/2010/101117sdr1912010en.pdf

If this is typical of social housing tenants across the UK , then it will adversely affect a large proportion of social housing tenants and I doubt that those who would not be adversely affected would gain any benefit as they may already have other accounts reporting positive data

Dr_Cuckoo3

savagej wrote: »

So in fact the first Visa Debit cards in the UK were Co-op Bank Electron Cards.

Someone on here must be old enough to remember them, they were silver in colour.

I had one of the first COOP Electron cards ,they were light blue (with wheatsheaf background) rather than silver I think

Shops refused to accept them , including COOP shops

I don't think self service ticket machines accepting cards existed on BR or LT at the time

Woolwich also issued an Electron card (which was silver)

savagej

It was before the wheatsheaf design, I am going back to about 1987 (but I think the card had been issued from about 1983 onwards) here until the new design was introduced, which was mid to late 1990's.

Do you remember when Visa Classic cards looked like this (as in the Visa bar on the right hand side):

http://www.fortunecity.co.uk/southbank/tate/88/bank/uk/np01.jpg

I tried copying and pasting the picture but I think the link is more reliable.

For the Visa Premier card the C was replaced with a P and Classic with Premier.

Well for the Co-op Visa Electron card the C was replaced with an "e", in lower case in large font and the classic obviously said ELECTRON, only thing was it did not have a real hologram it was a picture of the flying dove. The card stated "electronic use only" on it and it was unembossed as now.

The card would run through any PDQ machine, most shop tills that took Visa and it worked in train stations when they introduced the APTIS machines (I think that was the name) the ones were the staff behind the counter dropped the ticket in the top and it came out of the side. The card swipe device was always off-line as the staff had to go and use a telephone to get an authorisation code if you were buying a ticket priced over £150.

I have a funny feeling unless someone has one tucked away in a drawer somewhere, the only place to get an actual picture would be from the Co-op Banks own archives. The card was a grey/silver colour as memory serves.

As I said the only problem was getting people to believe it was really a Visa card as the hologram was a picture and it looked like something you had knocked up in your spare time, like monopoly money only far less realistic.

Edit: It would appear they may have one in the British Museum, now I am really feeling my age.