Who said air is free?

Wig

garethgas wrote: »

So how did they manage to provide free air for donkeys years?
The machines used today are grossly over complicated. They used to have a metal post, a hose and a gauge, all connected to the already running compressor in the back of the garage.
Also, the pump only runs if the pressure in the tank drops so its not on all the time.

Hit the nail on the head, they are ridiculously complicated. In France every station I went to so far, over 20 years has had one and it has been free, and it has been a simple length of hose about 5m long with a tiny 20mm metal clip/fitting on the end of the hose which clips to your valve (if this clip breaks I imagine it would cost about £2.00 to replace.) The hose is not retractable it just hangs on a hook. Then there is a simple needle gauge. There are 2 buttons "fill up" or "release" air no electricty required, no complicated bits to go wrong. The compressor is underground somewhere and compressors don't require hardly any electricty to keep themselves topped up. And they are always on even on Sundays when the station is closed.

It is a safety issue because people are discouraged from filling their tyres in the UK, I have filled 2 or 3 times at 20p in UK in emergency only. I'd rather change to the spare than pay 50p!

It should be the same as Inns required by law to provide free water for horses, these "Inns" should be required to provide free air for the horseless carriage.

Nilrem wrote: »

Some parts of any decent compressor will be checked on a regular basis - either timed (6 monthly, daily etc), or at set usage intervals (every X hours).
Things like air filters (needed to keep the air going into the piston clean...) can get mucky just sitting there, as well as when in use, the oil levels will need checking daily/weekly (depending on if it's an oiled piston, or more expensive oil free one which might need the o-rings replaced every couple of years), things like the hoses, and gauges will need checking for damage/replacing from time to time.

There will also be fairly stringent safety requirements for them as they are on the forecourt and used by the public (I'm guessing regular electrical safety checks at a minimum).

I really think you exagerate the reality.

pitkin2020

alistair.long wrote: »

What about if you goto a BP petrol station with a low tyre, put in 20p and the machine cant pump up your tyre, instead it lets the air out, annoyed me. I went inside and they never even gave me my 20p back, never even complained to headoffice but not used BP since for fuel or air.

If you had a hole in your petrol tank which you only found after pumping £20 of petrol in would you still expect your money back??

Air/water at forecourts aren't a given right its a service they provide, if they choose to charge or do it for free thats upto them they don't have to supply it all.

Maintainence, damage, misuse and theft of parts all have to be paid for by someone. Couple that with people who take the micky and use it for all sorts of things like inflatable boats, dingies, lilo, tractor inner tubes, trailered motorbikes etc yet haven't bought anything from the forecourt why shouldn't they pay for it. Its usually a very low cost for the air but it will discourage those who just want to mess about with it and stop kids from blowing bike tyres to infinity etc.

Like others have said if its such a big deal for you go and buy your own compressor you should be able to pick one up for around £20 unless you want one similar to a forecourt then spend a couple hundred, its really not such a big deal.

motorguy

garethgas wrote: »

So how did they manage to provide free air for donkeys years?
The machines used today are grossly over complicated. They used to have a metal post, a hose and a gauge, all connected to the already running compressor in the back of the garage.
Also, the pump only runs if the pressure in the tank drops so its not on all the time.

And maybe therein lies the problem.

Years ago filling stations often had garages attached to them, so the compressor was already there?

Also, i do remember that when the air was free, the facility was often abused / driven over / vandalised, so i tihnk a lot of garages started charging a nominal sum for the maintenance.

I dont mind paying 50p when i'm stuck for a quality service that i know will work and be reasonably accurate.

jase1

At the end of the day no-one is holding a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to pay -- there are alternatives available. I suppose it would be better if they didn't provide the service at all?

The only time I find the 20p thing annoying is when I don't have a 20p piece in my pocket. The cost is negligible.

As an aside, I was one of those idiot kids who pumped his bike tyres up at the garage. My dad had just bought a new front tyre for my Chopper as the old one was bald to the cords, had spent nearly an hour cursing over the sink trying to fix a large puncture on the inner-tube, and then gives it to me to pump up once it's on the wheel. Lazy jase decides to take it to the garage to pump up, think I must have inflated to 60+PSI not concentrating, and in the 400 yards between the garage and home the tube burst with a bang that would have woken the dead, and destroyed the brand-new tyre in the process.

To say that my father wasn't happy would be an understatement.... my friend and I however were in hysterics, and ISTR a few classmates deliberately bursting their own tyres to replicate the bang. Ten year olds, what would you do with them?

pitkin2020

Thats the point though Jase, did you spend any money in that garage for using their service?? Probably not being a young a chap. So for 20p the users of the garage have a low cost option for using air and those who don't use the forecourt services have a low cost option too. Only use who want to use the other services are paying for it.

Nilrem

Wig wrote: »

I really think you exagerate the reality.

Not really.

Compressors, even a £70 Homebase/Screwfix jobbie require maintenance if you want them to last - checking the oil (and replacing it on a regular basis) alone costs time and money.
The filters will get grimy just sitting at a forecourt, and if you get that muck into the piston in the compressor it can seriously shorten the life span (they have the filters for exactly the same reason a car does, foreign matter entering the piston increases wear).
Even just dealing with the inevitable moisture produced by the compressor can add to the cost/complexity of them (I'm guessing forecourt compressors probably use an auto drain device*).

When it comes to commercial level outdoor gear your looking at them costing thousands, and they do wear out either due to use, the elements, or misuse.
They also require safety checks, the same as any equipment in a public or work place, and iirc the checks on equipment at garage forecourts is a lot more stringent than the basic electrical test for a till in Tesco.

Given that the maintenance on these things is likely not done by the Forecourt attendant I suspect it costs a few hundred a year..

Also the inflator nozzles may be cheap, but is the guy working the pump allowed to replace them, or does it require someone who is qualified to asses the damage to do it...
If the nozzle is broken there is a chance there is other damage to the airline or handle, which can be dangerous when you're dealing with air at 30PSI and up.

I've got a reasonably healthy respect for compressors having seen what compressed air can do, and have an inkling of some of the costs having looked at various ones for hobby use (even just an inflater head with gauge on it varies from about £5-10 for a cheap one up to £50+ for ones with a standard fitting, and the hoses vary a lot depending on intended use).

So the nominal charge probably doesn't even come close to paying for the service to be offered, but discourages misuse.


*Otherwise you risk the air tank filling up with water reducing capacity (even just a little water left in the tank can reduce it's working life).

Lum

pgilc1 wrote: »

I dont mind paying 50p when i'm stuck for a quality service that i know will work and be reasonably accurate.

Problem is there are plenty of them out there that look like they were last maintained in the 90s, have perished hoses and/or the end of the nozzle missing and/or a broken pressure gauge, and they still want money for the privilege.

Some things you can check yourself, but the broken gauge you don't find out about until you have spent your money, and of course the minimum wage teenager inside doesn't care enough to actually pass on your fault report.

A bigger worry, however, is inaccurate gauges. Unless you check yourself by hand you'll never know.

Hintza

garethgas wrote: »

So how did they manage to provide free air for donkeys years?

Let me think........

When they had a higher gross profit, which was when they employed someone to fill your car. Then it was a service industry which it isn't anymore.

I bet you the 20p or even the 50p does not go anywhere near the cost of providing the machine.

OP are you willing to pay another 5-10p a litre so that you can get free air?

dickydonkin

Hintza wrote: »

Let me think........

When they had a higher gross profit, which was when they employed someone to fill your car. Then it was a service industry which it isn't anymore.

I bet you the 20p or even the 50p does not go anywhere near the cost of providing the machine.

OP are you willing to pay another 5-10p a litre so that you can get free air?

Missing the point completely.

I have never disputed that it will cost to supply and maintain the pump.

If we are going to tak about costs to a forecourt operation then let's include lighting, heating for the kiosk, detergents to clean the forecourt etc. etc.

Little extras (preferably free) might just entice someone who need s petrol AND needs their tyres inflated to go to a garage where air is free.

I know the days of free windscreen washers and assistants who would fill up your tank are gone - but instead of issuing stupid 'reward' points that require the fuel consumption of a supertanker to get sufficient points to buy a set of cheap wine glasses - a goodwill gesture to reward loyalty to a brand would not go amiss.

I suspect that the pumps are not actually owned or maintained by the proprietors - but by a third party who pays them commission, although I stand to be corrected on that.

Anyway - my rant is over but I wonder if garages actually charge such a fee in The States for example where the customer really is valued.

Dave101t

they have charged for years, always in motorway services and city/town centre supermarkets, trick is..to find one thats free (out of town) and always use that one! or buy a compressor and keep it in the boot.