DIY and Domestic Electrical Installations

BobProperty

Very interesting points from Robby-01 there.
I've helped out re-wiring houses many years ago and have some knowledge of electrics but not enough that I'd inflict them on a customer. But look at it from a customer's point of view. A year or two ago a plumber would wire up an electric shower, the heating engineer would wire up the control equipment for the CH, the kitchen fitter would move sockets about and wire in appliances (OK not a good example, I know where kitchen fitters are in the hierarchy of building trades :rotfl: ). But now it's all "you need a certificate for that" so, guess what, people are finding the quickest and cheapest way of getting to be able to write the certificate. The customer feels they are "over a barrel" as everyone is saying "you have to be qualified to do that now" even when it isn't needed (see grey areas previously - I don't think I'd need to try hard to find a spark who would tell me that you have to get a like for like replacement in a bathroom Part P'd). Building Control departments have been trying to avoid taking the responsibility and work where inspection is required.
I am seriously considering taking a Part P course so that I can work on electrics in bathrooms and install lighting, extractor fans, showers etc. but I have to balance the cost against the course and the test equipment and what return I will get on it. It won't make me an Electrician. I understand that, but then I'm not going to be working on 3 phase industrial supplies etc.

tomstickland

The law annoys me a bit, but it's there to protect us from idiots. However, I'm sure idiots will continue to do silly things from now on anyway.
I do my own work, but it's simple enough to get someone out to inspect it if needs be.

robby-01

after reading the many posts on this and many other threads about partp.
It appears that everyone agrees on 1 thing part p has failed to deliver what it promised there have been no improvements in safety and the only winners have been the goverment and the scheme providers.
It is just a thinly disguised stealth tax .
It could also have a much more sinister purpose.The registering of jobs with building control will leave over the coming years a paper trail right to the front door of anyone who has improved their home.This information will be available to local authoritys when they are reassessing homes for council tax there will be no need for inspectors they will have all the info they need.
roger56 dont misunderstand me I do care if you do your own electrics or not and i wish you well.I could however think of better things to do for a hobby.

weekendwarrior

flang wrote:

I buy all my cable at boot sales now so its the old red and black type, nobody can prove that ive done any new electrical work!!!
Im pretty good at Electrics and have done a college course on it however because i dont have a part P i cant make use of my skiils!
Why should I pay an electricial to add a new socket when Im totally capable of doing a simple job like this myself!

There is not much point in doing this as I have seen the old colours sell for a premuim at times!

The new harmonised colour wire was for sale some 6 or 12 months before part p was introduced.

Use the new harmonised colours and say it was done in december 2004

ozskin

how true and what a con, like new digi tv the consumer gets shafted. when i read the white paper a few years ago the sparks i spoke to said dont be daft they cant do that but they did. it adds nothing to electrical saftey, our bathrooms were already the safest in europe no sockets etc so why go further. one of our clients installs and designs and is fully qualified to rewire nuclear power stations but cant put in a new socket at home. I believe they were gong to make an official complaint to the govt. Just a thought for you another client personal friend of kim howells then no 2 to prescott in ODPM. not on this but on another new reg she asked why was this daft reg brought in, said he would get back to her. next dinner party admitted they were bringing in this new legislation but had no idea where it was originating from or to what overall purpose. ladies and gents this is the number 2 in the govt in charge of these things without a clue!

Alan50

As a qualified electrician of 30+ years and business owner of 20+ years (NICEIC) I can thank the OP for his contribution concerning electrical safety in the home. As other posts I have my reservations about the effectiveness of the competant schemes...is it going to stop the DIYer, kitchen fitter from doing electrical work?...No. Will belonging to a Part P scheme improve my business turnover...no improvement as yet.

Money saving tip for anyone wishing to belong to the NICEIC schemes
You no longer need to have your test equipment calibrated/certified on a yearly bases. a self test box and log book will satisfy the NICEIC on-site assessment

Happy New Year

Alan

roger56

Thanks for the comments Alan50.

Just for interest I came across another bit of paper today from
Rochdale Council Building Control - it's a building notice form especially for electrical work. It repeats some of what is in Part P and tries to add some further guidance particularly on filling in the correct forms.
http://www.rochdale.gov.uk/docs/forms/PRBCnoticeElectric.doc

I guess some are starting to get touchy about the implimentation of Part P.

I can image some of the comments that will be on their way after reading.....:beer:

The self test box is a very good idea, especially if you have many instruments as part of your business - how often does that get calibrated? It's also a sensible piece of kit for say a weekly confidence check, instruments are known to fail!!!!

weekendwarrior

I just found this and thought it should be added to this post-

http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/forum1/viewtopic.php?t=1215

Read the post by Ban-All-Sheds

roger56

weekendwarrior wrote:

I just found this and thought it should be added to this post-

http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/forum1/viewtopic.php?t=1215

Read the post by Ban-All-Sheds

Thanks - phew :coffee: a large post but interesting.

I was particularly interested in the end discussion point which is relevant to
installers not qualified to complete BS7671 completion certificates (and is quite relevant to DIYers):

"My local Building Control dept has told me that because of staffing problems they are unable to inspect some building work, and will have to sub-contract it, and that I will therefore have to pay this cost on top of their fees"

Part P of the building regulations 1:26 clearly states:

"The building control body may chose to carry out the inspection and testing itself, or to contract out some or all of the work to a specialist........
Building control bodies will carry out the necessary inspection and testing at their expense, not the house holders.

So it suggests some building control bodies don't follow the building regulations :rolleyes:

arealhighlander

Blimey, I built a new self build house in 2001 and did all the wiring myself - everything. No, Im not an electrican, I work offshore with electrical equipment, thats it.

Local leccy company came in, installed the meter n went away. House is NHBC assured. No-one at any time asked for any paperwork or certificates.