DIY and Domestic Electrical Installations

flang

I buy all my cable at boot sales now so its the old red and black type, nobody can prove that ive done any new electrical work!!!
Im pretty good at Electrics and have done a college course on it however because i dont have a part P i cant make use of my skiils!
Why should I pay an electricial to add a new socket when Im totally capable of doing a simple job like this myself!

andrew-b

There's still alot of electrical work you can do yourself that isn't notifiable under part p. I have read Part P regs to check out if work we wanted to do was notifiable) and as far as i understand it additions to existing circuits (like adding a spur) that aren't in the kitchen or bathroom aren't notifiable. Replacing broken sockets and other like for like swaps, replacing light fittings can all be done still. So there's actually quite alot of electrical work that can be done still....though i get the feeling some electricians will use it to their advantage to drum up extra business by having us believe we can't touch a thing!

Andy

espresso

I'm glad to see that not everyone has been frightened off by part p, it doesn't apply in these here parts either!

:rolleyes:

BobProperty

roger56 wrote:

.....To answer your question, yes even a replacement is notifiable as it's in a bathroom which is considered a "special location"......

I'm going to disagree with that, it is like for like replacement which is allowed even in "special locations".(that's in England and Wales not Scotland which has its own similar-but-not-the-same rules IIRC). Now all I need to do is find the link I had to prove it.
There you go http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_PTP_NEWRULESenglish.pdf
Box A on page 3 says:
"You do not need to tell
your local authority’s
Building Control Department
about:
● repairs, replacements and
maintenance work; or
● extra power points or lighting
points or other alterations to
existing circuits (except in a
kitchen or bathroom, or
outdoors)."

roger56

BobProperty wrote:

I'm going to disagree with that, it is like for like replacement which is allowed even in "special locations".(that's in England and Wales not Scotland which has its own similar-but-not-the-same rules IIRC). Now all I need to do is find the link I had to prove it.
There you go http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_PTP_NEWRULESenglish.pdf
Box A on page 3 says:
"You do not need to tell
your local authority’s
Building Control Department
about:
● repairs, replacements and
maintenance work; or
● extra power points or lighting
points or other alterations to
existing circuits (except in a
kitchen or bathroom, or
outdoors)."

Thanks for the link. That's interesting and highlights some of the grey areas that were raised on the Part P course I attended - non notifiable work was limited to replacing accessories such as socket outlets, ceiling roses, replacing cable for a single circuit or replacing enclosures of existing installation components not in special locations.
Work in special locations, eg bathrooms, was notifiable.

If you do DIY, and because it is a bath/shower room, I would recommend the replacement unit is properly tested and all earthing checked for safety. Most DIYers will not have the equipment to do this.

It may be worth asking the local building control, though I suspect they will just tell you to get a suitably qualified electrician to do the work.

Added note:
The building regulation document for this is the current Part P document (current is 6th April 2006). On page 8 at the bottom additional note b states:
"Replacement, repair and maintenance jobs are generally not notifiable, even if carried out in a kitchen or special location (eg bathroom)...."
I recall the inclusion of the words "..generally not..." led to doubt and since bathroom constitute areas were there is a greater risk to people, it was considered best to err on the safety side.

The "...generally not..." inclusion was probably to cover the fact that replacement consumer units are notifiable, as is a socket outlet on an external wall, as is work for sheds and garages IF it involves new outside wiring.

Tables 1 and 2 and the additional notes provide general guidance. Here is the link to the Part P document - I notice it's moved again!!
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/professionals/en/4000000001253.html

baldelectrician

roger56 wrote:

That's interesting and highlights some of the grey areas that were raised on
the Part P course I attended.

Just a couple of points (nothing personal)

1. Your part P course, how long was it, and do you have all the test equipment?

2. Part P doesn't apply to Scotland (you have to prove competence, and the client has to pay for all inspection and testing) you have to notify the council and obtain permission prior to work starting.

see:
http://www.sbsa.gov.uk/pdfs/Electrical%20Guidance%20for%20Verifiers%2029Mar06.pdf

http://www.sec.uk.net/

Ken68

Without the proper paperwork, it may be difficult to sell your house, especially where there are new extensions etc.
The gainers from Part P are the insurance companies, and the electrical associations/testers.
So no doubt there will be reduced house insurance premiums !!

roger56

baldelectrician wrote:

Just a couple of points (nothing personal)

1. Your part P course, how long was it, and do you have all the test equipment?

2. Part P doesn't apply to Scotland (you have to prove competence, and the client has to pay for all inspection and testing) you have to notify the council and obtain permission prior to work starting.

see:
http://www.sbsa.gov.uk/pdfs/Electrical%20Guidance%20for%20Verifiers%2029Mar06.pdf

http://www.sec.uk.net/

The Part P course I took was 5 days which was open to everyone.
The course included tests on practical competence like correct wiring / fault finding / identification of components etc.
For qualified electricians who hold the 16th edition wiring regulations certificate, the course is only 1 day.

Test equipment, yes I have a Meggar 1552 with up to date cal certificate - that does all Part P tests.

You are correct, Part P is for England and Wales - I'll edit my first post to make this clear - thanks.

robby-01

roger56 wrote:

The Part P course I took was 5 days which was open to everyone.
The course included tests on practical competence like correct wiring / fault finding / identification of components etc.
For qualified electricians who hold the 16th edition wiring regulations certificate, the course is only 1 day.

5 days you can learn a lot in 5 days but obviously not enough.A lot of what you have posted makes sense but the " grey areas" that you keep mentioning are only adding to the confusion.
Most electrical work that a diyer might want to tackle extra sockets etc are not notifiable under part p .The exceptions are work in bathrooms and kitchens due to increased risk of shock and in the case of kitchens overload and potential fire etc.
Before you start a rant I run an electrical contracting business,eca and niceic members part p registered ,fully insured ,proper test gear ,correct ppe for staff,health care for staff etc etc etc.
It is my opinion that the introduction of part p in england and wales has led and will continue to lead to a drop in standards in the industry.
For people like myself it alters very little our work is always carried out to BS7671 and that includes the correct certificate being issued for each job
What it has allowed is people to go on a course to prove "competence" and come out days later with a piece of paper that allows them to register on a partp scheme and trade as an electrician.
Joe public doesnt know this all he wants is a cheap job and the correct bit of paper when its finished.
So what has happened is the better electricians the ones who learned the trade the correct way are being forced out of the domestic market leaving it to the new breed of instant electrician .
How as that improved anything.

roger56

robby-01
I appreciate your comments and yes I understand your comments.
I don't have any need to start a "rant" as you put it.

My first post is intended to provide links help DIYers find factual information about house electrics and perhaps think carefully about doing such work and the safety issues involved - the key is if you are not sure, get a qualified electrician to do your house electrics. That holds true both before and after Part P was introduced, but now Part P introduces legal requirements that many people may not be aware of.

I do electrical installation work for interest/fun, not a job. :j

I trained as an electrical apprentice and have an ONC in Electrical and Electronic engineering. I also have an degree in Electronics. My full time work is in the electronics industry.
This does not make me a qualified electrician and able complete BS7671 installation certificates. The Part P course added to my knowledge, and I have completed one new self build electrical design and installation with guidance from building control who I will say are helpful. (I've also re-wired several houses prior to Part P introduction).

I am certain there are many others in a similar position to me (self builders) and I hope the links in my post provides them with useful factual information to do such work safely and legally.

If there is anything in any of my posts that is wrong, I'm happy to be corrected and learn.