Thames Water - Formal Complaint.

co123456

Paid my bill in full by credit card a while back so as to enjoy the Loyalty Points and have just had a Water Meter installed. I find that I am in credit and requested a refund. As the credit card has been closed, I asked for a refund to my bank account. Initially, Thames Water agreed, however after a few days, I'm waiting for the money.
Phone Thames Water and received a 'No' answer....... Complaint written and sent.

Dear Sirs,
Further to a conversation with ................ at 1435 on Tuesday the 12th of July 2011, I wish to make a formal complaint.
On the 6th of July, I spoke with a Thames Water employee to arrange the refund of GBP455.34 to my bank account. This was agreed.
On the 7th of July, The Thames Water employee called me to advise that everything was in order and that the refund had been arranged.
On the 12th of July I called Thames Water to advise that the refund had not been received. I was informed that the refund had failed. I established that the refund had been erroneously refunded to the credit card I used to pay the bill in March 2011. Having advised Thames Water that the credit card account had been closed, I was informed that a second refund would be attempted and that I should contact the credit card company to obtain that refund. I argued that this was wrong because I had closed the credit card account, and that the failed refund was evidence of this fact. I was informed that due to Thames Water policy, a refund could only be made to the card used for payment. I was this point that I asked to make an official complaint and that I would have no hesitation in taking this to the Consumer Council for Water if necessary.
I had planned to receive the GBP 455.34 this week and use it for grocery shopping as I have moved away from the use of credit cards. I now find that Thames Water is:
1. Trying to convince me that money can be refunded to a financial establishment (credit card company) with which I no longer hold an account with.
2. Preventing myself and my family from shopping for food.
3. Breaking its promise that a refund would be made to my bank account.

Yours faithfully

Come on Thames Water...... you have an oportunity to put your hands up and sort this out. :mad:

co123456

LOL! Thames Water's Standard e-mail auto reply contains the following footer:

'Our vision: If customers had a choice, they would chose Thames Water'

roughly translated as

'We know you have no choice. Suckers'

Gothicfairy

I did think it was standard practise to refund to the card that made the payment. It was always that way whenever I had to deal with anything like this as it insures it goes back to the person who paid it and if they refunded to anything else based on a phone call it could cause problems down the line if that was not the person who paid the bill..see what I mean ?

I pay the bill on my card but the account is in my husbands name, if we broke up I would then want my money back as I paid it not him..

I understand why you are annoyed but I would have been shocked had they changed the bank details for a refund without something in writing as over the phone is not really the best method for those sort of things and not when it is the amount you are talking about either.

I also would have left number 2 out but that is just me. I tend to think complaints should be factual and not at all personal as the person reading it and dealing with it either doesn't care or can't do anything about it anyway.

co123456

Thanks for your comments.

I think the reason they insist on crediting the original payment card is because the Credit Card company takes their percent. If the refund is made to a bank account, Thames Water lose money.

They did ID check me so security should be maintained. It's not as if the account is joint names (I know Northern Rock implemented a similar change for refunds/cashbacks where both parties would need to sign a written request, if the refund was not being returned to the original payment bank account)

Number 2 is a bit 'airy fairy' however I like to include consequential loses / personal stuff to demonstrate how 'hurt' I've been made to feel. Could come in useful at the Ombudsman stage.

Gothicfairy

Thames will not care about losing out as their profits are already fixed for 5 years and I do think it is something that a lot of companies do. I struggled with a refund from Boots as they wanted to use a paypal account that was closed to refund too.

I do understand though that it is things like this that drive you mad..it is always the rules that get you in the end..lol

As for No 2. . You might have a point.

Cardew

It is standard practice with any company when goods are paid for by credit card, to refund to that credit card.

In fact I believe it is in the Banking code that this must happen, as to refund the person by cash/cheque has all the hallmarks of a scam – if you do a search on the Internet you will see that some people have tried to do exactly as you have done – effectively borrowing money.

The merchant can pay anything up to 6% commission to the card company, which he still pays if he refunds you cash.

It would also be very easy to have a lot of similar transactions, and claim lots of cash refunds – then go bankrupt! Someone could also raise a dispute on these payments, so they are set aside from their bill.

However I am certain you know all the above as you seem to be something of an expert of ‘manipulations’ with credit cards and writing formal complaints.
I was amused at this post of yours:

I'd typically shaft anything or anyone for a profit,

Anyway, I suspect that it will take some time to sort out this issue; and I really don’t see you have any grounds for complaint until Thames have established the exact position – i.e. have you paid the credit card company in full. (not suggesting you haven't, but it takes time)

They may even make a special arrangement with your old credit card company and send them the refund for them to forward to you; assuming there are no problems.

Gothicfairy

I hadn't even though about that Cardew but now you say it it really does make sense..It would be easy to pay for a bill with a credit card then not pay them but demand a refund in cash..thus making money

co123456

One person's scam is another person's loophole. Is buying a bottle of Hoegaarden Rose at Tesco just for the Clubcard points a scam or a loophole?

It is possible to make a fair amount of money paying by credit card (Reward points, Cashback, or Stoozing) and having a refund in cash. Most traders who are on the ball or have decent point of sale software can screen for refund diversion. Some don't (e.g. some local authorities)

It wasn't my intention in this instance to divert the refund for profit. I simply want the money back in my account, and having been promissed this by Thames Water, my expectations have been set.

The guidance on refunding to a closed credit card that has ticked me off. I've severed my links with that credit card company. Conducting a financial transaction with a company with which I have no control over, nor am a party to.... now that would suggest money laundering to me.

Cardew

Your intent is not the issue here surely?

Thames are following perfectly sensible guidelines in checking that there is no scam or loophole.

For that reason I cannot see that you have a complaint against Thames.

co123456

I'll disagree with you that I don't have grounds for a complaint.

The Banking Code only makes two references to the word Refund and neither apply here. There is no legislation dictating that a refund must be made using the same payment instrument (though of course, it's common practice as discussed).

It may be of course that Thames Water are following a script/policy which is not sophisticated enough to make provision for a customer who:

Pays an unmetered bill in full with a credit card,
Pays down the credit card and cancels it,
Has a water meter installed, and credit applied to their account,
Requests a refund to their current account.

I didn't intentionaly try to dupe Thames Water - I just want my money back.

Here's a question. My account is in credit. How do I get my money back?

Cardew

cheeryoleary wrote: »

I didn't intentionaly try to dupe Thames Water - I just want my money back.

Here's a question. My account is in credit. How do I get my money back?

Nobody is suggesting you were out to dupe the firm.

Seems to me perfectly reasonable that Thames check matters with the credit card company to ensure that no scam is taking place, before they arrange a refund.

You requested a refund on 6th July and submitted a formal complaint by 12th July - which seems a little hasty??