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They are installing a water meter against my wishes

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  • Graham_Devon
    Graham_Devon Posts: 58,560 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    jamespir wrote: »
    ive got a meter and i pay 29 pounds every 3 months

    Blimey. Do you wash?
  • MacMickster
    MacMickster Posts: 3,646 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Oh and the charges are not loaded on non metered customers as the water companies profits are capped by OFWAT for a 5 year cycle so it makes not difference to them how a person is charged, the profit will remain the same and split between metered , assessed and RV . It also only goes up in line with OFWAT, which again is agreed for 5 years.

    This is the key. The water company's profits will remain the same. They currently charge metered households less than those without, to encourage installation of meters. Once the majority are metered however then their charges will obviously be increased to maintain the profit levels.

    People will then try to use less water to keep their bills down, which will lead to further price increases to maintain profit levels. The consumer will not win.
    "When the people fear the government there is tyranny, when the government fears the people there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
  • ruggedtoast
    ruggedtoast Posts: 9,819 Forumite
    This is the key. The water company's profits will remain the same. They currently charge metered households less than those without, to encourage installation of meters. Once the majority are metered however then their charges will obviously be increased to maintain the profit levels.

    People will then try to use less water to keep their bills down, which will lead to further price increases to maintain profit levels. The consumer will not win.

    Wait, what?

    /reparks Nissan over man-hole
  • We have a source of water we can plummet for water for ourselves (not a well, but rather a pond used as a resevoir). In addition we are installiung a grey water system into the house (ATM we use cleaned grey water (thanks to our new sewage treatment unit) to water the garden, but hope to install a very slightly more sophisticated system of seap hoses connected to the outflow in summer so that we don't do anything apart from fitting the hose back on in spring and disconnecting as the wetter autumn starts.).
    .

    Good for you
    You'll need to make sure the cleaning of the grey water before being used in the house really is good otherwise it really does become rather mucky and quite literally grey.
    I'm fortunate- I've got a house well 40ft deep to the bottom accessed from the cellar supplying nice clean soft water....all now with an automated electrical pumping system. I don't use it for drinking as 'soft' water is bad for you long term.
  • molerat
    molerat Posts: 35,003 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 9 July 2011 at 12:48PM
    Depending on your area
    Can my water company insist that I have a water meter?

    In general your water company cannot insist that you have a water meter. However, there are exceptions to this, which are set out in law. Your water company can insist you have a water meter if you:
    • move into a property
    • use an automatic watering device (such as a garden sprinkler)
    • have a swimming pool
    • have a large bath
    • have a water softening unit that uses reverse osmosis
    • have a power shower
    • live in a water stressed area where the Government has allowed compulsory metering as part of a plan to maintain secure water supplies
    At the moment, Veolia Water Southeast (formerly Folkestone & Dover Water) and Southern Water are installing meters in all their remaining unmetered household properties.
    The Water Industry Act 1999 (Chapter 9, Part 1, Section 7) and subordinate Regulations, prescribe the circumstances in which we can fit meters. These regulations have recently been amended to include the power to universally meter households if the water company’s area has been determined to be an area of serious water stress. Provided that we act within the legal framework outlined above, customers cannot refuse the installation of a water meter under our universal metering programme.
  • lostinrates
    lostinrates Posts: 55,283 Forumite
    I've been Money Tipped!
    Good for you
    You'll need to make sure the cleaning of the grey water before being used in the house really is good otherwise it really does become rather mucky and quite literally grey.
    I'm fortunate- I've got a house well 40ft deep to the bottom accessed from the cellar supplying nice clean soft water....all now with an automated electrical pumping system. I don't use it for drinking as 'soft' water is bad for you long term.


    It goes through the treatment centre and comes out ''drinking quality''. Have to say I baulk at the idea of drinking it from the sewage tank, but the plan IS to swim in it. We have the site of an old well. We haven't decided what, if anything, to do about it. I think it would be nice to have, but worry that reinstating (even with more advanced technology than a bucket) might make our garden look a bit naff. :o
  • ruggedtoast
    ruggedtoast Posts: 9,819 Forumite
    You would balk at drinking sewage water but swimming in it is ok?
  • LydiaJ
    LydiaJ Posts: 8,083 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker Mortgage-free Glee!
    ruggedtoast, it's not foul sewage. It's things like bath water and washing up water. I can see the sense in feeling more OK about swimming in it than drinking it.

    lir, I'm interested to know more about your treatment plant. What does it do? How does it remove all the detergenty stuff. I've always been suspcious of grey water systems, even for watering the gargen, not least because I've so far not done very well at toning down my DD's ideas about how much bubble bath, washing up liguid etc to use, which makes me feel the grey water would be much too full of chemicals to be good for plants. But perhaps that's just my ignorance of the systems available for cleaning it, so I'm open to learning more.
    Do you know anyone who's bereaved? Point them to https://www.AtaLoss.org which does for bereavement support what MSE does for financial services, providing links to support organisations relevant to the circumstances of the loss & the local area. (Link permitted by forum team)
    Tyre performance in the wet deteriorates rapidly below about 3mm tread - change yours when they get dangerous, not just when they are nearly illegal (1.6mm).
    Oh, and wear your seatbelt. My kids are only alive because they were wearing theirs when somebody else was driving in wet weather with worn tyres.
    :)
  • lostinrates
    lostinrates Posts: 55,283 Forumite
    I've been Money Tipped!
    edited 9 July 2011 at 3:07PM
    LydiaJ wrote: »
    ruggedtoast, it's not foul sewage. It's things like bath water and washing up water. I can see the sense in feeling more OK about swimming in it than drinking it.

    lir, I'm interested to know more about your treatment plant. What does it do? How does it remove all the detergenty stuff. I've always been suspcious of grey water systems, even for watering the gargen, not least because I've so far not done very well at toning down my DD's ideas about how much bubble bath, washing up liguid etc to use, which makes me feel the grey water would be much too full of chemicals to be good for plants. But perhaps that's just my ignorance of the systems available for cleaning it, so I'm open to learning more.


    A lot of it is that you manage it like a septic tank (in fact I learned things that we'v e put in septic tanks over the years we shouldn't have been doing, like washing out emulsion from pain brushes, I always used to do that.) So, verly limited bleach etc (preferably none, but I do like to bleach the work surfaces weekly or so) appropriate detergents and appropriate amount of water usuage. For example, no biological stuff (I do still use it sometimes, but as a hand wash from a backet and as throurough a rinse by han d as I can for the usually big items I biowash. This obviously does go straight on the garden though, not sure how good an idea that is, ours goes on our undrained lawn.) if we had twenty people all wanting a bath here our tank would not cope with it and the ideal for other use is no more than three washing machine loads and a dishwasher load in a day.

    The nest thing is to make sure you buy the right size, I'm told going too big is as unhelpful as going too small in the selection size. More people wanting baths? Bigger tank :) Getting ''the good bacteria'' with a good ratio of surface area to not is, I'm told, underestimated. Similarly, unlike a septic tank, this will not go years and years without being emptying.

    Detergent is interesting, and I've been experimenting. In true MSE old school style I use a reduced amount of detergent for things like washing. (even though we live in a hard water area). If you do use too much and then you go to the tank you can see it doesn't cope. I use a fair amount of bubble bath etc and horrendous anmount of consitioner, and that hasn't so far impacted on water tests. I guess we also use a lot of washing up liquid, and that hasn';t shown on the water testing either. Too much non bio washing powder DID in a couple of the tests (testing was done over a few weeks shortly after installation, things change). I didn't need a test though, I could see the bubbles. The ''reservoir water'' was tested and the amount was small enough not to show as significant. Fwiw when we ''do'' the Cake's makeover we plan to further protect against this with reed bed and gravel drainage, though the drainage chap thinks its over kill .


    Fould sewage DOES go through the same system as this, but when the grey water system is installed this system will be the secondary one, so that the grey detergenty water reaching the sewage plant will already have been treated once.


    As to the technicalities, pass. It does involve some electricity use.

    edit: I do not see that ours, unlike a conventional grey water sytem for use with mains drainage, would make finanical sense for anyone with an existing house and access to mains drainage

    Ours had no viable septic drainage system at all and needed, like a new build, to start from scratch with the drainage.
  • lostinrates
    lostinrates Posts: 55,283 Forumite
    I've been Money Tipped!
    You would balk at drinking sewage water but swimming in it is ok?


    Its partly psychological. Most places I have lived (Uk sand outside) I have been swimming in the local water. Sometimes this isn't clear and blue but murky. However, some place I have lived the water needs to be boiled to drink, yet people still fish from it and swim in it (or not). a home grown example is that I've safely swum in the ponds at Hampstead amoung the duck poop and murk, I really wouldn't fancy a glass of it. (unfiltered and unboiled at the very least!). Similarly, I don't much fancy a swig of the bath water when I'm in the bath!
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