Collection in Person - Paypal vs Cash

soolin

incidentally poro bello did you also miss the links in post 6 which have already explained the points you are making?

The tips for new sellers post explains the paypal on collection scam

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...ps+new+sellers

Postage requirements for full paypal protection are here:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=3146680

porto_bello

Soolin, as far as I can tell, on this thread at least, only one writer suggests throwing caution to the wind, accepting paypal payments and blindly allowing buyers to collect – despite the known risk of falling victim to a known scam.

Moreover, the expectation of never being scammed is apparently on the basis that they’ve yet to be scammed in this way and they won’t believe such scams exist unless they become a victim of it!

…That advice sounds pretty worthless to me.

macfly wrote: »

Your advice is worse than useless, it's rumour.

Some months ago, a friend of mine collected together unwanted spare motorcycle parts and spares for several specific bikes, which he had owned and sold over a period of years and sold them as several lots.

They all sold surprisingly well. One lot made over £100. The buyer paid immediately by paypal and arranged a collection date via phone call. He turned up promptly and was, by all accounts, a model buyer.

… Then the ‘item not received claim’ came rolling in, to which my friend protested, explaining that the buyer had collected and … by the way … he could prove they were collected because the buyer broke the lot down the into individual items and relisted them all on ebay. (He provided all the item numbers).

But ebay weren’t interested. My friend couldn’t ‘prove’ that the relisted items were the same ones he’d previously sold as a lot. But fundamentally, he lost because he couldn’t provide the tracking details, because they were never sent via a courier, but were collected.

…Thus, he lost the paypal claim, the money and the items!

If you want to believe this case is unique, or that it never happened, that’s entirely up to you. I’d rather urge caution and always advise sellers only ever to accept cash, if a buyer wants to pick up an item.

macfly wrote: »

Too many people give advice on subjects they have no experience of. They've just read about it.

Funnily enough, that’s exactly what I thought, when I read your comment!

macfly

Show me the "caution to the wind" bit in my post. Murders, car crashes, air disasters happen frequently. I drive, fly and walk about quite freely. Am I throwing caution to the wind? Or am I smart enough to realise it could happen, but the odds are it's unlikely.
By the way, is your "friend" living in the Wild West? Even they had the odd sherriff or two. He's had a theft. Ebay scammers are not inviolate.
Interesting how this "friend" has cropped up. According to your post, you learned about this scam on this forum. Forgot to tell him?

Crowqueen

Although every time I used to say that the risk was small, I'd immediately read a post on the community forums complaining about it...

In short, you know the rules and the risks you run. I would always say send untracked because you can always claim from RM if an item goes missing, and the INR scam is fairly unlikely to happen; but then there are scam areas where some people are less than honest (wargaming miniatures for the postal variant) so knowing the risks and dealing with them is a reasonable course of action. Scaremongering and encouraging people to break the rules isn't (look at any post on bank transfer for the same sort of thing).

porto_bello

macfly wrote: »

Show me the "caution to the wind" bit in my post. Murders, car crashes, air disasters happen frequently. I drive, fly and walk about quite freely. Am I throwing caution to the wind? Or am I smart enough to realise it could happen, but the odds are it's unlikely.
By the way, is your "friend" living in the Wild West? Even they had the odd sherriff or two. He's had a theft. Ebay scammers are not inviolate.
Interesting how this "friend" has cropped up. According to your post, you learned about this scam on this forum. Forgot to tell him?

It's certainly interesting that whenever somebody's personal experience conflicts with your opinion, and it's always the personal experience that you question. Yes my friend knew the risks, but like you, thought he was smart enough to work out that the likelihood of being scammed was low and he was focusing on an easy £100 sale ... he got it wrong!

And only today, I noted an article in the 'Wild West' London Metro, dated 18th July, under the headline:
“Short-changed by eBay buying scam”.

The article explains that, eBay seller Michael Harbron discovered he had been a victim of paypal scam. He describes that an eBay buyer bought a laptop, paid for it with paypal, collected it and very soon after, (within an hour of pick-up), paypal emailed to say the buyer had claimed their account had been hacked. The seller lost the funds as there was no tracked delivery or evidence of receipt.

Of particular interest is Paypal’s response:
“PAYPAL WARNED THE SCAM HAPPENED REGULARLY”.

…”The scam can happen in two ways. Sometimes buyers say they have never received the item, or they say their account has been hacked and they have no knowledge of ever bidding”.

… “In either case, the only way we can protect the seller is if the item has been delivered in the form of proof of delivery, otherwise the payment is immediately stopped”.

But perhaps the last word should be from the victim of this scam, who advises,
“IF YOU HAVE GOODS PICKED UP, MAKE SURE IT’S FOR CASH”

Alternatively, you can rubbish the article, dismiss Michael Harbron’s statements, reject eBay's advice, ignore paypal's terms and conditions ... and conclude that you don't need to worry, as you're smarter than all of them.:A

hcb42

I guess if you are a regular seller, or make a living from ebay, you can afford to take the rough with the smooth.

Personally, I would not accept paypal as there are a lot of scammers out there, (been scammed ourselves) I am not a huge seller on ebay, and I do not want to be scammed!

pitkin2020

hcb42 wrote: »

I guess if you are a regular seller, or make a living from ebay, you can afford to take the rough with the smooth.

Personally, I would not accept paypal as there are a lot of scammers out there, (been scammed ourselves) I am not a huge seller on ebay, and I do not want to be scammed!

Thats exactly what it comes down to, if you are a regular seller selling 20 £5 items a day losing 1 or 2 every now and then to a scammer may happen and can be absorbed into your other costs.

For personal sellers selling something once in a blue for over £100 and getting scammed can't be absorbed, your money will be lost.

Personally anything over about £20 if they want to collect has to be paid in cash, no two ways about it. I usually always offer a courier/pallet option if they MUST pay via paypal.

Whilst others have happily accepted paypal and collection and never been scammed, well thats good for you. You only need it to happen once though remember that and you cold end up losing several hundred pounds.

If you actually explain to a buyer why you won't accept paypal i,e fear of the INR scam a genuine buyer won't have an issue and will pay in cash. They are going to see/test the item before taking it away so there really is no issue.

Paypal need to introduce a security check system for collection methods, a simple code given to the buyer via paypal that the seller has to enter to confirm its the buyer collecting the item would be an easy method.

davemorton

Just been reading through this thread and thought...wouldnt it be possible for paypal to give purchasers who want to pick up an item a pin number, that they pass onto the seller to input into payal when the item is picked up, to prove the item was collected. Seems a simple solution to a problem (unless of course I am missing something apart from common sense).

soolin

davemorton wrote: »

Just been reading through this thread and thought...wouldnt it be possible for paypal to give purchasers who want to pick up an item a pin number, that they pass onto the seller to input into payal when the item is picked up, to prove the item was collected. Seems a simple solution to a problem (unless of course I am missing something apart from common sense).

Paypal though already say that their services are NOT suitable for items that cannot be posted, so they don't need to make it secure.

It is ebay that insist we use it.

davemorton

soolin wrote: »

Paypal though already say that their services are NOT suitable for items that cannot be posted, so they don't need to make it secure.

It is ebay that insist we use it.

Ahhh, I see......but arnt they the one and the same???