Strikes to go ahead

LydiaJ

LydiaJ wrote: »

Interesting. Average wages for whom are higher than whose wages in the private sector please?

stonethrower wrote: »

Here is a couple of links stating public service workers get paid more.


http://www.payandbenefitsmagazine.co.uk/pab/article/public-sector-workers-better-paid-than-private-sector-1238631


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/7835366/Public-sector-pay-conditions-outstrip-private-sector-report-says.html

Those have been discussed to death - and it's very difficult to be sure you're comparing like with like. My question was because I wasn't sure if leveller's comment about Newsnight was yet another comment about private/public sector pay in general, or something much more specific about private/public sector teachers' pay - which indeed it turned out to be.

Orpheo

leveller2911 wrote: »

A good teacher who is passionate about the subject they teach should be paid a 50% bonus and a poor teacher who lacks motivation and passion about his/her subject should be sacked the problem is the Unions won't accept it...

How do you propose to measure these things?

What would be your system of measuring passion and motivation?

kabayiri

I get the arguments that teachers believe they have a just case.

I still don't know where the money is going to come from to pay for all these commitments, and which groups should be worse off for groups like teachers to be better off.

That seems to be the harsh reality to me.

Remember, we are all on the hook for £50bn worth of school PFI borrowing. Just how much can we expect every taxpayer to fork out?

Orpheo

leveller2911 wrote: »

1/ Key worker status with preferencial Housing.

2/ Contracted for 38 weeks of the year (14 weeks off.)

3/ If they fall ill or break a leg playing sport they get 6 months full pay and a further 6 months of half pay.

4/ Currently far better Pensions than the Private sector

5/ Job for life almost imossible to sack bad teachers.

1) First in line for the property scams, what a perk.

2) 13 weeks off. I suspect there is no use in arguing about how much of this is spent doing planning and preparation? No, I didn't think so. I will concede that the summer holiday is nice, I only used to spend a couple of the six weeks working.

3) If they fall ill they get good sickness benefits. If they break a leg most will wheel themselves into school.

4) Currently contribute considerably more (double) to their pensions than the private sector.

5) In some ways I agree with you here, but it isn't a job for life unless you really love what you do. In all the schools I've taught in there have been few teachers over 50. As for getting sacked, there are capability procedures but it is easier to hound teachers out by bullying and constructive dismissal - I have seen this happen to good teachers as well as bad. Who is going to identify bad head teachers?

I didn't quit full time teaching because it was too easy.

But. But, if you can change things. If you can inject passion, motivation, subject knowledge and raise standards of literacy and mathematics then don't let me stop you. Sign up. Do your initial teacher training. What have you got to lose? You'll get huge holidays, a massive pension and short hours. Furthermore, the children need you.

Oh.

You're scared, aren't you?

Orpheo

kabayiri wrote: »

I get the arguments that teachers believe they have a just case.

I still don't know where the money is going to come from to pay for all these commitments, and which groups should be worse off for groups like teachers to be better off.

That seems to be the harsh reality to me.

Remember, we are all on the hook for £50bn worth of school PFI borrowing. Just how much can we expect every taxpayer to fork out?

Yes, you're right. And you're wrong.

The real truth is that public sector pensions were always going to fail because they are a ponzi scheme. Private sector pensions were always going to fail because they are managed by thieves. With this in mind, the best thing for us to do is squabble jealously amongst ourselves while we all get shafted.

kabayiri

I agree Orpheo that it is all entwined with multiple issues. Australia tried to address the national pension issue several decades ago. Successive UK governments have simply swept it under the carpet.

Currently, there is a perception of inequity between different sectors, and don't be surprised to see government use strike action to highlight 'their view' (right or wrong).

I just don't see strikes as an effective demonstration medium any more. If you are going to take action, you need to be smarter than that.

LydiaJ

Orpheo wrote: »

2) 13 weeks off. I suspect there is no use in arguing about how much of this is spent doing planning and preparation? No, I didn't think so. I will concede that the summer holiday is nice, I only used to spend a couple of the six weeks working.

Yes, the holidays are a great perk, and as a single parent of school age children, I find them invaluable, but they do have a down side, which is that there's absolutely no flexibility about time off. The holidays are when they are (expensively). Want to take a day off for an event with your friends or a family gathering? Sorry, no, unless it's a funeral. Your child is ill? Unless they're hospitalised, all you can have is an hour or two to make arrangements and then you must be in work.

Orpheo wrote: »

3) If they fall ill they get good sickness benefits. If they break a leg most will wheel themselves into school.

Broken leg? That might get you some time off if you teach PE, but certainly not otherwise.

Orpheo wrote: »

But. But, if you can change things. If you can inject passion, motivation, subject knowledge and raise standards of literacy and mathematics then don't let me stop you. Sign up. Do your initial teacher training. What have you got to lose? You'll get huge holidays, a massive pension and short hours. Furthermore, the children need you.

Really2

Touching on the above and holidays.

My little lad starts reception class in Sept. At the meet the teacher thing a few weeks ago the head said.

We do not want any holiday in term time, even a day off can disrupt a child's education.

The problem I see here is that parents may start to feel, "well if they can do it" and start having term time holidays again.

I understand striking and holidays are a fair bit different, but if the reason given is because it disrupts a children's education there is a precendent being set that it does not matter that much one day.
Or that perhaps strike action was taken to quickly (as little negotiation has seemed to have taken place)

Rochdale_Pioneers

What entertains me about some of the arguments I've heard are the complete levels of ignorance. "Noone got into teaching to get rich - they should go work in the private sector instead". "If they're unhappy with pay why did they become a teacher" etc

In the private sector there have been swathes of pension funds getting into trouble - badly managed, porly structured, gambling on the stock market and losing. In the private sector if your employer reduces the pension deal you have the option to leave and find a better package.

But if you are a teacher you have no choice. You can change schools but the pension deal is the pension deal. All you could do is stop being a teacher and do something else - is that the remedy that the right are recommending to teachers unhappy about being told to pay more and work longer for less, quit?

The right complain bitterly about dumbed down exams and poor education standards. Then they tell teachers to stop teaching and go work in the private sector instead. You can't have a world class education system and pay peanuts. Yes, private sector pensions have been restructured, and people like me unhappy at the new arrangements can quit and get as better deal elsewhere. We cannot afford to let teachers stop teaching - especially when it will be the best ones going.

ess0two

Really2 wrote: »

Touching on the above and holidays.

My little lad starts reception class in Sept. At the meet the teacher thing a few weeks ago the head said.

We do not want any holiday in term time, even a day off can disrupt a child's education.

The problem I see here is that parents may start to feel, "well if they can do it" and start having term time holidays again.

I understand striking and holidays are a fair bit different, but if the reason given is because it disrupts a children's education there is a precendent being set that it does not matter that much one day.
Or that perhaps strike action was taken to quickly (as little negotiation has seemed to have taken place)

+1 i've just submitted an unauthorised absence for my son,3 days.Letter returned informed that i'm being reported for this,been to the school and argued the toss over tomorrows strike,got it over turned to authorised absence.