Strikes to go ahead

dori2o

Prudent wrote: »

I am doing that just now. I have officially been on holiday all week (Scotland). I was in work all day Monday. I took most of Tuesay off other than ordering some material for my classroom. Shopped in store for classroom yesterday. I have just sat down at the computer with a huge box of files and will be sorting files and doing paperwork all day other than a walk and odd bits of house work.

A survey earlier in the year showed that teachers do the highest unpaid overtime of all workers, averaging 17 hours a week. In between shopping yesterday I went to a medical appointment. I have been very ill with a neurological condition this year and am being strongly advised to work to contract. That would give me a lovely long summer holiday to look forward to - just like the public assume we get The reality is I would be way behind at work because most of my colleagues are in work or working from home this week.

I know a couple of teachers, 1 is a science and technology teacher (he teaches both at his school) and 1 is a PE teacher who is a mate I went to school with. (This is the original profession I wanted, PE teacher, but I chose an engineering apprenticeship instead of college)

Both are sports mad. Here's how their typical week goes. (based on conversation in the pub last week)

PE teacher.

Arrives a work at 7.30, school starts at 8.30. First lesson set up between 7.30 and 8.20 (i.e. sports hall set up or pitches readied for whichever sport is being played)

PE teacher 8.20- goes to cassroom to do the register for his form.

8.45 back to changing rooms/sports hall ready for first class


11.55 phones canteen to order dinner

12:00 school dinner time- coaching one of the various school teams beit football, cricket, rugby, whatever. there is a practice going on every dinnertime.

12.40 run to canteen for dinner

12.45 run to classroom to register in form for afternoon

1pm back to sports hall for afternoon sessions

3pm end of school day. Back to sports hall for afterschool sports practice/ sports teams meetings/ football matches etc- one every night after school.

Simnple practice finishes at 4.30, competetive game at around 5.30 but if playing competetive game away from school at another school for example, could be as late as 6.30 before finished.

Saturdays - morning to early afternoon- football, rugby match, athletics/cross country meet.

PE teacher has 5 free periods a week, in this time he plans lessons, arranges sports games with other schools and marks the homework/classwork of those who do GCSE PE. He can also be asked to 'babysit' a class that has a teacher missing for whatever reason, no matter if he knows the subject or not.

The science teacher is much the same as in he is the coach of the year 11 football team so coaches them 1 dinner per week and once after school per week, plus he attends the games on a Saturday. He also runs 3 science clubs during the week for different age groups, he and 2 other teachers also run a technology club 2 nights per week where they discuss technology, test theories, and build some amazing models/working steam engines from general rubbish etc, and is part of the drama team that put on plays, fund raising events during the year.

He has to take exams most years to keep his knowledge up to date so attends college to be able to do this. Plus takes work home to mark and plans lessons.

I've known him to come home from work straight into the pub at 8pm with the classwork to mark, and sits in the corner with a pint and a packet of crisp marking away before going home to relax.

So all in all they sacrifice a lot of their own time for out of school activities. Time for which they are not paid for.

J_i_m

DervProf wrote: »

My wages aren't paid by from everyone else's taxes, they come from people's pockets.

And where exactly do taxes come from? They come from "people's pockets". Public service workers pay the same taxes as private sector workers you know

Your comment is a knat's wing span away from likening public sector workers to benefit fraudsters.

lostinrates

Prudent wrote: »

A survey earlier in the year showed that teachers do the highest unpaid overtime of all workers, averaging 17 hours a week. .

Do you have a link for this? I'd be interested to see it, look at which other prefessions were included and how.

Really2

Prudent wrote: »

A survey earlier in the year showed that teachers do the highest unpaid overtime of all workers, averaging 17 hours a week. I

But you would argue their payed hours are around 2 hours less per day than the average worker. (so their pay kind of unoficially includes overtime as it is high for the lower hours and paid leave they receive)

Also they have around 7.5 weeks more annual leave than other workers

So I make that although they do a lot of unpaid overtime.
Against a 9am -5:30 pm worker with 25 days paid leave a year they are actually doing around the same amount working hours a year(providing the 9am -5:30 does no over time.).

17H - 10H for the 2h for 5 days = 7 hours per week
7H x40 (working paid weeks for teachers) = 280H per year overtime

7.5 (paid holidays over others) X5 = 37.5 Days extra
37.5X8h (9-5:30 working hours) = 300H

280-300 = -20 (but I will call it even hours )

So their hours including overtime in general are not greater than persons who does 9-5pm, they just have shorter paid working days and more holiday.

Unpaid overtime yes, more hours would seem to be a no.
So the argument hinge on that they may be they have more time to do unpaid overtime compared to other workers.

FTBFun

Prudent wrote: »

A survey earlier in the year showed that teachers do the highest unpaid overtime of all workers, averaging 17 hours a week.

I somehow doubt this is accurate. Workers in City law firms and banks are renowned for working incredibly high amounts of overtime.

A friend of mine worked for 9 months in an investment bank before he quit, and despite being contracted the usual 35/40 hours a week, he generally worked - as a minimum - 8am to 2am every weekday, and sometimes on weekends. This is pretty much par for the course in that sector.

BTW I'm aware of the whole bonus thing, but this isn't necessarily based upon the actual hours spent working.

kabayiri

I feel that whenever there is talk of pensions it is often accompanied by smoke and mirrors.

There has not been enough provision for future public pensions we know that. So the question is then, would these current changes being argued over rectify the situation ?

I personally suspect the answer is no, not by a long way.

We will be back at this very same spot, arguing over unfair changes in less than a decade I reckon.

edinburgher

There has not been enough provision for future public pensions we know that. So the question is then, would these current changes being argued over rectify the situation ?

I personally suspect the answer is no, not by a long way.

Fair point.

Until they actually start keeping some money with which to pay future pensions, there will always be issues around the corner.

I'd like to see some sort of superannuation scheme, as opposed to the current system whereby pensions are promised out of future tax revenues. Seems to be fundamentally flawed.

Really2

edinburgher wrote: »

Seems to be fundamentally flawed.

It is, it requires people to die when planed 50 years earlier and that we can sustain ever growing populations.

abaxas

The issues with teachers is that some do overtime outside of school, when others dont. Ie those that care spend the time, while others who dont just do the 8:30-3:30.

As they say in teaching.

If you cant, teach. If you cant teach, move to ofsted.

beecher2

FTBFun wrote: »

I somehow doubt this is accurate. Workers in City law firms and banks are renowned for working incredibly high amounts of overtime.

A friend of mine worked for 9 months in an investment bank before he quit, and despite being contracted the usual 35/40 hours a week, he generally worked - as a minimum - 8am to 2am every weekday, and sometimes on weekends. This is pretty much par for the course in that sector.

BTW I'm aware of the whole bonus thing, but this isn't necessarily based upon the actual hours spent working.

I think it is from the TUC's 'Work your Proper Hours Day' stats, though it is from 2010
http://www.tuc.org.uk/workplace/tuc-17614-f0.cfm

Teachers and lawyers are the most likely to do 'extreme' unpaid overtime with around one in five employees clocking up an extra 17 hours of free work a week.

Most of my colleagues are teachers and I'd take much of this with a pinch of salt as it relies on self reporting and I'd hazard a guess a good bulk of the 17 hours consists of faffing around