Objection to our "For Sale" sign

mrcow

I had PITA neighbours at my last house.

When we sold, it took about 4 months for the sale to go through. I told the neighbours that we had sold to a family with five kids (we hadn't). Stressed them out royally for about 3 months wondering about all the things they'd have to complain about. Their fault for having nothing better to do with their time.

Sometimes you have to take the little wins.

geoffky

2sides2everystory wrote: »

FCOL

The OP clearly owns nothing but the lease of a flat, no more. No "grounds" are owned or leased by the OP, just an internal demised section of a building. Not the brickwork exterior of the flat, nor of the neighbours flats, nor of the stairwell, nor the pathways to the front door, nor the garden if there is one, nor of the grass verge outside.

If it helps get the point across I can tell you that the farmer next door would be cross if someone put a sign up on the side of his barn or on his land ...

What is it with you people that have no respect for neighbours' property and rights?

You are what is totally wrong with our planning laws,
hopefully we will soon see sad people like you a thing of the past..
Nimbyism is a scourge on society and is full of pathetic little creature who does not believe in letting people have individual thoughts but likes lots of rules and to be ruled by your rulers,, I pity you. Try and free yourself from the shackles your mind has put on you..

rumdiddlyum

where exactly does he want you to put this sign:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Ulfar

The lease will stipulate what can and can't be done in the common grounds. If it says that a sign must be in accordance with good estate agency practice and the management company have already confirmed signs are allowed then the neighbour can be as upset as they like but they are in the wrong.

The whole point of the lease is to set out what is and isn't allowed, normally they include a clause about quiet enjoyment, the moaning neighbour is the one in breach of their lease as they are harassing another leaseholder who is abiding by the rules.

The moaning neighbour is trying to insist on a restriction of some one else's rights, the management company should be putting the moaning neighbour straight. IF they did maybe they would get less vexatious complaints.

2sides2everystory

Ulfar wrote: »

The lease will stipulate what can and can't be done in the common grounds.

Have you read a typical lease for a single flat in a typical block? Got one handy?

JQ.

2sides2everystory wrote: »

Have you read a typical lease for a single flat in a typical block? Got one handy?

I read several leases a week and they can state whatever they like - there are no hard and fast rules. Just because the leases you have had stipulate such points it does not mean they all do. I have seen many residential leases that allow marketing boards to be erected externally.

Ulfar

Actually I do have one handy, I have the one for my previous property. The lease covers a whole estate for where I used to live as it used to be MOD property and they were all sold off as leasehold, houses and flats. The MOD split the estate into various blocks and formed a company for each development which is run by a tenants committee of which I was a member.

It details both the rights and responsibilities of what you can and can't do both in the flat and the common parts. It gives details covering for sale boards (allowed), satellite dishes (not allowed) and many other aspects.

I appreciate other flats may have less detailed leases but if something isn't forbidden in a lease such as a for sale board then the leaseholder aren't breaching the lease by putting one up.

The moaning neighbour or the management company can only stop something that breaches the lease. The fact the OP has stated the lease allows for signs and the management company have confirmed this means the moaning neighbour is in the wrong.

2sides2everystory

Well at least you have something to hang your hat on then Ulfar, but I think you are getting the cart before the horse. Remember that before you can decide to do anything with any property be it ground or common ground or bricks and mortar and plaster and floors and ceilings and windows you need to have a document that says you are granted an interest first. If there is no broad interest granted in the bricks and mortar or the ground outside then you can't assume that just because you think it is somehow shared that you can do anything that is not disbarred generally or specifically from your lease.

Outside the flat itself you might be granted use of a parking space for example but are you suggesting a sign erected in the middle of it is likely to be permitted because no-one wrote that use of a car park space for parking a car does not include erection of a sign?? You may be expected to pay for gardening around the block and even allowed to go and sunbathe in it, but does that entitle you to erect a sign in the garden? You are unlikely to read anything about the stairwell other than having to pay for regular repainting, but is that the place for a sign?

JQ the OP has already said that they have now discovered that the lease allows for internal window display (only) of a For Sale board - why are you continuing to argue the toss on it?? What sort of person reads several leases a week anyway?? Someone with a vested interest in ordering signs willy-nilly and to hell with the upset??

I think you are both being rather obtuse with your recommendations.

Ulfar

I don't agree to being obtuse, there is nothing wrong with someone insisting on their rights or people giving an opinion when asked.

You ask for a document giving an interest that would be the lease and the ones I have had for flats have always covered communal parts. Any lease I have ever seen will detail what rights and responsibilities to a greater or lesser extent a leaseholder has.

Any leaseholder that has pays a service charge or any other charge for use of communal parts has an interest. For them to be liable for any charge it has to be detailed in the lease.

The erection of a sign in the middle of a car park would not be allowable as it would interfere with the use of that communal facility by other leaseholders. To use your sunbathing example, while sunbathing may be allowed I think you find if you tried to nude sunbathe this would not be allowed.

Any use of a communal area has to be treated with common sense, reasonableness and with reference to what the lease allows. Some leaseholds do in fact prohibit signs as you have stated.

Quoting from the OP : but it does state that any sign must be "in accordance with good estate agency practice"

If the lease says this then by implication signs are allowed.

I am going to leave this discussion know as any further discussion would be pointless as opinions are now entrenched.

2sides2everystory

the_OP,_145dude_in_post_#19_page_1_of_this_thread wrote:

I've found the bit about displaying signs and windows, and the MA was correct (and I was wrong) in that we can display a sign from INSIDE the window, the lease prohibits from displaying a sign OUTSIDE the window.

We are somehow still debating the rights and wrongs of a sign outside the window at post #51 after 3 pages.