MONEY MORAL DILEMMA. Should Jenny kick them out?

JayD

There is financial help available for the single parent family - which I am sure she will be reciving quite soon, after being advised how to apply by the CAB. I am not sure of the legal rights that Jenny has at her disposal to 'kick out' non-paying tenants but if any exist I would expect them to be expensive and time consuming and new, reliable tenants may not be speedily forthcoming either. Nor does Jenny have any desperate financial need to take such action. So, eviction makes no practical sense whatsoever at this stage.

seven-day-weekend

I've not read the other posts, because I didn't want to be influenced by others' replies... My thoughts are as follows:

I would do my very best not to evict them. I would be prepared to wait for HB to get their act together because I would get the rent in the end.....

...but.....

I have a mortgage to pay.

I think actually what I would do is ask the tenant to give me authority to bang the table on their behalf (I'm quite good at that) and hopefully it would be sorted out before too long. Hopefully I would be able to cover a couple of mortgage payments whilst waiting for them to pay up.

If I had to evict them because no rent was forthcoming, I would do my dam**est to help them apply for a council place.

My husband rented a bungalow out to DSS tenants and had no trouble at all (apart from at the end of the tenancy, when having given the tenants a YEAR'S notice, the council still forced us to go to court to evict them before offering a place) .

So to summarise, I would do my absolute best not to evict them.

bobh_4

It's quite difficult as there is a mixture of moral and legal issues mixed up here. For my tuppenceworth I'd like to re-iterate that you cannot evict someone without a court order so any idea of just putting them out (Or trying to) would be unlawful.

With regard to the intentionality of their homelessness.- They don't actually have to be evicted to be treated as homeless; it just needs to be imminent (around 28days) so a notice of intention to proceed should be enough. There may be a delay in the payment of their HB but this will be backdated to the start of their claim (the backdating limit only applies if they haven't actually claimed)

With regard to insurance prohibition on DSS. If someone becomes unemployed you can't just evict them because your insurance prohibits it (like you can't if you want to sell the house!). You would still have to go to court and there is a strong chance you wouldn't succeed (remember the tenant has a contract with you and the court would have to consider if it is reasonable to evict.

This is a very short analysis of a variety of complex legal issues. The most important thing to remember however is, no matter what you lease says, you and/or the tenant cannot contract out of statute.

Regards

Bob

cefynbach

I definitely would not kick them out and not just because it is Christmas but I would give firstly ask why they haven't paid and what they are doing about it.
If they say they are awaiting HB then I would give them a letter stating that if payments aren't recieved within a month then they would be asked to leave. They could then take this to the council to put pressure on them to get the benefits sorted.
:rudolf: :xmastree: :xmassign: :snow_laug :santa2:

cefynbach

I definitely would not kick them out and not just because it is Christmas but I would firstly ask why they haven't paid and what they are doing about it.
If they say they are awaiting HB then I would give them a letter stating that if payments aren't recieved within a month then they would be asked to leave. They could then take this to the council to put pressure on them to get the benefits sorted.
:rudolf: :xmastree: :xmassign: :snow_laug :santa2:

lydiloo

I suggest that as a Lndlord Jenny should write to the tenant and give her notice that she intends to commence legal proceeding s to gain possession due to he rent arrears that have occurred. this should then be taken to the local Housing office to get Housing advice since the local authority are expected to assit in preventing homelessness hwere possible. Please do not assume that the tenant will have any right to be rehoused permanently since eviction for arrears can be regarded as a reason to not qualify due to intentional homeless rules. They may only get temporary housing in a B and B while the claim is sorted out.

The best thing would be for a visit to the local MP is the HB department are taking ages to sort out a claim. Checks need to be made that all information is provided at the commencement of a HB claim so enable this to be processed quickly. Ask for diecrt payment to be made to the Landlord to ensure that you get the money when the claim is sorted.
If they are a good tenant and are paying their part of the claim this is a good sign of their intention to pay. Jenny could aleays ring up the local HB dept and tell them she will be applying for eviction.

Jenny could check with the local HB dept to see how long the claims are generally taking and if there are any know delays and make the decison armed with all these facts.

It is a business maybe she could check with the lenders to see if there are any paymetn holidays if really struggling to pay.

If you get good tenants keep them I say at all costs as you save in the long run.

If you evict do so after Christmas

Justamum

Difficult situation this. I will never be in the position of buying to let, or even of buying to live in - and as a tenant I find it objectionable having to pay off someone else's mortgage. Sorry if this is irrelevant to the situation, but I think landlords do need to know how people who are stuck with having to rent actually feel about it. I don't believe anyone actually WANTS to rent, but all these buy to let mortgages are shoving the price of property up, so all those properties we can't actually afford to buy for ourselves, we still end up paying the mortgage on for someone else's benefit. Also, you can never feel at home in a rental property because you are there at the whim of the landlord deciding not to sell up. This has just happened to us again. So many family sized homes will not allow children (so where do the children live?). Great Christmas we are going to have with the worry of having to find somewhere else to live in the new year.

sienalucca

Wow - this has certainly opened up a lively debate!

From a purely legal viewpoint, yes, Jenny could start the legal ball rolling to repossess the property using ground 8. As this is a mandatory ground, so long as 2 months arrears exist when the case calls in court an eviction order will be granted. However...

As a responsible landlord Jenny should give her tenant the opportunity to resolve the situation before taking these steps. Given that Jenny's tenant has sought advice, it seems she is trying to resolve the situation. At the end of the day we are talking about people's lives and more importantly, children's well being. The costs of evicting this family are far higher than the temporary financial loss to Jenny. The effects that homelessness has on children can be devastating - disruption to their education and health care, a sense of loss, behavioural and/or emotional disturbance, poor nutrition, to name a few. Homelessness often means families living in unsuitable temporary accommodation (sometimes B&B) for long periods of time. Few people would put themselves or their families through this "intentionally" - often rent arrears are a symptom of other issues be these financial or otherwise.

Yes, the local authority has a statutory duty to assess the family's homelessness application and legally the family should not be deemed intentionally homeless because of financial difficulties. Unfortunately though local authorities are resource led organisations and their interpretation of the legislation often reflects this.

If the moral arguement cuts no ice then consider the financial one - evicting a tenant can be a long and expensive process and you have no guarantee of recouping your losses at the end of it especially if the person disappears. It makes much more financial sense to try and support your tenant to sort out the situation - help them complete HB forms and negotiate with the local authority, put them in touch with local agencies that can provide help and support i.e. CAB or Shelter.

This type of scenario is part and parcel of being a private landlord and the consequences need to be carefully considered before taking on the responsibility of being a landlord - it's not just about making a quick buck!

cala99

I don't understand how this could even be a debate. If you walk in to a store, you can't buy something unless you pay for it. You can't tell the sales clerk, well I just lost my job etc, etc, and the council will hopefully pay in the three months! This is the same thing. You can't expect to keep a rented property unless you PAY for it. I would never expect my landlord to let me live in my flat rent free for three months! Its my responsibility as a tenant to make sure I get the money - regardless of whether or not I have a job. If I can't, then I would fully expect to be evicted.

I think to whole socialist mentality of society in the UK has become overwhelming. People seem to think that they are entitled to other people's money, just because they don't have any. Well the bottom line is you're not. Landlords have worked hard to earn their money to be able to buy a property to let out in the first place. They shouldn't be cheated out of rightful earnings simply because they have "more".

Cala

wenthome

When Jenny first let the property to the tenants, she could have taken out a rent and legal warrenty. Some agents now include these for first six months of a tenancy agreement. The insurance company would then step in to cover her loss of rent and legal costs and of course to advise her.