MONEY MORAL DILEMMA. Should Jenny kick them out?

golddustmedia

In the new year I shall become a landlord myself and the sad fact is that I would have to kick them out, or at least give a letter of intention to do so. If I found I was not getting any rental income it would not take long before I would be in arrears on the mortgage of the buy to let which puts my family home at risk.

It's pretty much a self preservation thing, if I didn't kick out the tennant I'd lose the property to the bank anyway and since my one is to be secured on my own home I'd risk becoming homeless too.

It's not a nice thought but at the end of the day people are responsible for their own wellbeing and living within their means.

Someone above noted they are kicking out tennants who "cannot pay" yet the tennants are having a holiday and buying presents. Perhaps it's only me that as a tennant would feel responsible for my rent above my own christmas enjoyment?

Herb

If there has been no application for Housing Benefit then start eviction proceedings. The time of year is irrelevent - why should Jenny pay for her tenant's Christmas.

There is a 13 week rule regarding the backdating of Housing Benefit and even if it is granted there could be a large shortfall each month.

Action should have been taken as soon as she became aware of the problem.

If the tenancy was not renewed at 6 months then Jenny need only give 2 weeks notice using a Section 8 - this might focus the HB office to process the claim.

Although we don't know for certain, it is possible (and in my experience- likely) that the tenant will spend her normal Christmas spending - but will make no effort to pay Jenny.

Jenny will be paying for the tenant's Christmas - and Jenny is unlikely to get the money back.

Ebenezer_Screwj

They should be evicted without delay. The horrendous burden of taxation upon the individual means every man for himself.

coolpaprika

This is interesting for me as I'm considering buying a buy to let property. What I've learnt is not to have a family with young children as I'm a sucker for a hard luck story!
Having said that, I wouldn't evict immediately. Housing benefit is the right way to go and I would help with the applications as I know how daunting forms can be to fill in. I think I would suggest claiming immediately on knowing about the job loss. Losing a job is bad enough on it's own without also losing your home whatever time of year. I really don't think I could put anyone on the street or temporary accommodation without exhausting all possibilities.

november

NeilW wrote:

Yes, the tenant should leave and the landlord should evict. Why? Because if the landlord evicts then the local authority has a statutory duty to rehouse the family, whereas if the family leaves of their own accord they are 'intentionally homeless' and could end up in cardboard boxes.

Just for information and not saying its the landlord's responsibility (as it isn't) but -

If the landlord evicts because the tenant has rent arrears the chances are the local authority may find the family 'intentionally homeless' i.e. homeless through their own fault. They then have NO statutory duty to rehouse. The only statutory duty is Social Services duty to the children and case law has shown that it is 'reasonable' for them to take the children into care rather than house the family.

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Even with a business head on the landlord has what has previously been a good tenant. Keeping good tenants is good business sense as the next potential tenant is an unknown plus you have a possible gap between tenants.

The tenant has contacted Citizen's Advice. It doesn't say if the tenant knew and is awaiting housing benefit (seeking advice with that) or didn't know they could claim (some people who have never claimed benefit don't). In either case Citizen's Advice will help either by advising the tenant on an interim payment or by helping the tenant claim housing benefit and put in for a backdate if there are any special reasons they didn't claim before.

I think if I were Jenny I would do the following:

1) If I had never had a PTD done I would ask the tenant to get one done so I knew if the tenant was likely to have to pay any 'top up' on the rent. Or use some other method of finding out what housing benefit may consider a reasonable rent for that family in my property. If it looked like there may be a top up I would ask the tenant to start paying that and any arrears on that. Stops arrears accumulating should housing benefit not pay the whole rent and demonstrates tenant responsibility (which it says this tenant has).

2) Issue a Section 21 which gives 2 month's notice. That means that I can retract it if rent is in payment by then (which it should be) but limits my losses if it isn't while setting a useful deadline. Make sure the tenant knows why I am doing this and that it doesn't necessarily mean they will have to leave IF rent is in payment by the deadline but that I will reassess and enforce it (through court if necessary) if no payments are made by then. Reassess is because e.g. hb payments may be made by then but the tenant still have arrears if no hb backdate was possible in which case I would expect the tenant to make and keep to arrangements to pay off the arrears.

3) I would expect the tenant to keep lines of communication open with me and let me know what is happening.


'Kick them out?' You have to serve some form of notice and then take them to court anyway. It seems sound business sense to give someone a chance to claim the benefits to which they are entitled and therefore increase chances of getting the arrears paid as well as being fairer to a 'good tenant' who unfortunately lost her job.

Catonine

I have a friend who is a landlord, and she has found that the housing benifit office move their bottoms faster if you serve the family with a letter saying if money has not been paid by X date they will be evicted. :mad:

Its not a great solution, but it may well get results

Darknesslass

This is a difficult one BUT.....

The family should have claimed housing benefit straight away....

I'm sure if I remember right while you are claim housing benefit any arrears of rent CAN NOT be counted if it's the fault of late housing benefit.

Rent has to be 2 months in arrears BEFORE a court will take action, THEY also allow the deposit to be used as a months rent. SO the tenent is really allowed upto 3 months arrears before the court will action.

The tenent can ALSO file appeals against the section, so it could be very costly for the landlord.

I'd want to see proof that housing benefit has now been claimed and contact housing myself. If they confirm it will be sorted and then paid, I'd let the family stay UNTIL the end of their lease.

HercsDad

Sorry, but I have to say this is not a moral dilemma, at all – she has to go. She owes two months and the HB may not backdate, so where does she get that from? The HB system is complicated and slow, so it’s likely to be another month before any money arrives.

I am a landlord, a perfectly fair one, and I’ve had plenty of good tenants, but also some bad ones. Did you know that even if a tenant instructs the HB to pay the money directly to you, they can revoke that at any time? So, how’s this for great…..the tenant pockets the money and you still don’t get paid. This happened to me.

Also, the HB may not pay all of the rent – so where does the rest come from?? What about insurance? Many buy to let insurance policies don’t cover the place if the tenant is on HB.

She needs to issue a section 8 notice for non payment AND a section 21 for simply wanting her place back, NOW. Did you know the s21 means you have to give 2 months notice regardless of any “contract”? You CANNOT just “kick someone out”.

One tenant I had defaulted constantly and after many broken promises, I told him to leave. He went to HB office and THEY told HIM, and I kid you not….”just stay there – he can’t make you leave and it’ll take months before the court get you out”.

Gives you faith in the system doesn’t it when a civil servant advocates such action.

My parents are currently landlords and good honest people. To cut a very long story short, they let in the summer to an Iraqi doctor. Turns out after she was in that she is actually barred from practising by the GMC following a conviction for racial violence.

Unbeknown to my parents, she also moved in her mother and brother.

Then she stopped paying the rent.

Then we found out why…..she is on remand for more violent behaviour against a pregnant woman and likely to get a custodial sentence. The mother and brother, who are sponsored to be in the country by the doctor, are now living in the house, paying no rent and both my parents are now becoming ill with the stress and worry about how they can recover the house, let alone the cash.

Sorry, but like I say – to Jenny, this is a no brainer…….

nej

Jenny is not a charity and must kick out the tenant.

If the tenant can get the local authority to pay the rent, then fine. One of my tenants is doing that now (similar situation - her boyfriend left her, and she has to look after her 6 month old baby). The local authority is going to pay the rent, so that is fine.

We did have a situation with a single guy in another flat who stopped paying because he lost his job. The authority paid some of the rent in this instance, but not all of it. We had to evict him.

scrummy_mummy_2

I have 3 buy to let properties...ALL of the mortgages EXPRESSLY say I am unable to allow DHSS tenants....faced with this situation as described, technically I would have to start eviction proceedings or technically I would be in breach of my mortgage conditions....all buy to letters note this condition may also be in your mortgage conditions!!

I have faced this situation actually and only evicted when I absolutely had to...it cost me £5,000 in void, enormous damage, lost rent and court fees. Think what a change that moeny could have made if I'd given it to a proper charity leading up to Christmas and not to the lie telling, benefit cheats it actually ended up supporting....never again...one day late and I'm in there with a section 21. If I feel uneasy about a tenant for any reason now, (even though I still run full independent credit and ref checks) I issue them a Section 21 the day they move in to keep my options open. (All perfectly legal by the way.....)
Being a buy to let investor is like a huge game of chess.....assume everyone is always trying to out manoeuvre you and stay one step ahead...plan your move carefully...never get agressive...cold, clinical decision making Christmas or not I'm afraid....if they've not paid, they've not paid and not issuing the correct legal notice at the correct legal time may affect your position.
Chess guys...chess!!