Public sector wellcome to the real world

atush

This is just funny, or sad maybe.

Face it, in the past public sector workers earned less. But that hasn't been the case for a few years now. Statistics back it up.

Second, my husband is private sector and hasn't had a pay rise in 4 years. So why do you Public sctor workers think the streets are paved with gold with yearly rises? They aren't.

Work hours, he gets paid to work 37, but actually works 50. Salary, no OT. No final salary pension, just money purchase.

The public, ie those of us out there paying taxes are very sorry but we can no longer afford final salary pensions for you at all, but they are trying to continue them on a fairer basis. So that they can keep them going. Keep it up and you'll be on money purchse like the rest of us.

I actually do have sympathy with you now, just like I do those who have been made redundant. But Strike, and you lose all of us who sympthis with your provision.

Go ahead and strike, but like BA CC before you, you won't get sympathy just approbrium.

Do you sympathise with Greece? One of their problems was that the retirement age was under 60. Still feel sorry?

real1314

atush wrote: »

This is just funny, or sad maybe.

Face it, in the past public sector workers earned less. But that hasn't been the case for a few years now. Statistics back it up.

Second, my husband is private sector and hasn't had a pay rise in 4 years. So why do you Public sctor workers think the streets are paved with gold with yearly rises? They aren't.

Work hours, he gets paid to work 37, but actually works 50. Salary, no OT. No final salary pension, just money purchase.

The public, ie those of us out there paying taxes are very sorry but we can no longer afford final salary pensions for you at all, but they are trying to continue them on a fairer basis. So that they can keep them going. Keep it up and you'll be on money purchse like the rest of us.

I actually do have sympathy with you now, just like I do those who have been made redundant. But Strike, and you lose all of us who sympthis with your provision.

Go ahead and strike, but like BA CC before you, you won't get sympathy just approbrium.

Do you sympathise with Greece? One of their problems was that the retirement age was under 60. Still feel sorry?

No doubt you have read the "average public sector pay vs average private sector pay" quotes and mis-understood them.

Imagine you have a public sector body with 10 employees. 5 are paid £100k pa ; 5 are paid £10k pa.
Average pay is therefore £55k pa.

You move the £5k employees from the public sector to the private sector.

Average pay is now £100k.

The 5 that have moved to the private sector lower the average private sector pay.

And yet, no-one's pay has actually changed.

Over the past 20 years many low paid public service jobs have moved to the private sector - cleaners in almost all areas - NHS, Civil Service, Schools etc for a start.
None of the highly paid jobs have been moved. Hence average pay has increased without any changes to anyone's pay. :cool:

Turnbull2000

real1314 wrote: »

No doubt you have read the "average public sector pay vs average private sector pay" quotes and mis-understood them.

Imagine you have a public sector body with 10 employees. 5 are paid £100k pa ; 5 are paid £10k pa.
Average pay is therefore £55k pa.

You move the £5k employees from the public sector to the private sector.

Average pay is now £100k.

The 5 that have moved to the private sector lower the average private sector pay.

And yet, no-one's pay has actually changed.

The ONS data is based on median and average, and divided into percentiles. It shows that public sector pay is higher at all levels except top level management/director/CEO.

real1314 wrote: »

Over the past 20 years many low paid public service jobs have moved to the private sector - cleaners in almost all areas - NHS, Civil Service, Schools etc for a start.
None of the highly paid jobs have been moved. Hence average pay has increased without any changes to anyone's pay. :cool:

If this is true, then the grounds for reducing public sector pension perks is ever stronger.

CLAPTON

dori2o wrote: »

I have no problem psting my job details

Department? HMRC
Position? Contact Centre- Taxes
Hours per week? 37
Annual Salary? £18k
latest pension projection- assuming 35 years service £5987 PA. (This includes 6 years pension contributions transferred in from old private sector employment scheme- BAE Systems)
Contribution? 3.5%
What bonuses do you get? NONE
What favourable conditions do you get? 25 days annual leave, plus bank 10.5 days bank holiday.

just for interest

your total pension payments will be approximately
18,000 x 3.5% x 37 = 23,326 gross before tax relief

to buy an indexed linked pension of 5987 pa at say 65 would cost about 170,000

no judgement is being made here merely the comparison between contributions and benefits

roysterer

54 post on this thread and not one post on how the Public Sector Pensions are going to continue to be fully funded?
The Public Sector has supposedly been cutting waste and duplication for the last 10 years so it should be a lean machine now, so that will not be the answer to making up any shortfall.
I am not Jealous or resentfull of anyone in the Public Sector getting a Final Salary Pension all I am saying is that I am not prepared to pay higher taxes to fund it? Ihave a family to support like many other people, and I pay income tax through P.A.Y.E. so no tax fiddles for me like the vast majority of others in the Private Sector and Public Sector alike
So come and explain to me how the continuation of your Final Salary Pension will be funded.
If the result is that I dont have to pay higher taxes and Community Charges then I support the continuation of your Pension in its current format.

If you think that your Pension is going to continue as it currently is then you are in denial or deluded.
Yeah you can go on strike, but the problem will not go away after your 1 day protest.
I can GUARANTEE that give it another 5 to 10 years then Career Average Pensions in the Public Sector will be next to be taken away like it is to many in the Private Sector for new starters.
I look forward to a reply on how it will be funded!!!!!!!!!!!!

real1314

Turnbull2000 wrote: »

The ONS data is based on median and average, and divided into percentiles. It shows that public sector pay is higher at all levels except top level management/director/CEO.

Percentiles of what? - Pay. It does not show how an individuals actual pay has changed, nor how that relates to a similar job/level of pay in the private sector.

The BBC did an IT profressional comparison a while back. The public sector came out worst paid.

As for the manangement/director/CEO stuff - it's funny that the public seem to have the most outrage for public sector pay over £100k, without realising how low that is compared to private business. The head of the NHS gets about £450k iirc, how much does the 10th best paid person in M&S get? And what pension does he/she get with that?


If this is true, then the grounds for reducing public sector pension perks is ever stronger.

Why? Because people who are not the lowest paid should not get a decent pension, even though the vast majority earn less than average wages?

Let's be honest here, most people who object to public sector pay/pensions do so because they just resent having to pay for it / it's more than they get.

But we all pay for everyone's pension /pay - ok, I can choose Asda or Tesco or Morrisons, but I can't really avoid buying from shops/supermarkets. It's simply not practical in the modern world. So i pay for their pensions. And the profits.

hugheskevi

54 post on this thread and not one post on how the Public Sector Pensions are going to continue to be fully funded?

As you probably know, most public service pensions (aside from Local Govt) are not funded - they are paid from general taxation/borrowing.

So come and explain to me how the continuation of your Final Salary Pension will be funded.

There is no proposal to move away from the payment of pensions on a Pay-As-You-Go basis (ie pensions paid out from general tax/borrowing as they fall due, rather than being paid out from a fund).

If the result is that I dont have to pay higher taxes and Community Charges then I support the continuation of your Pension in its current format.

Since 2006, reforms including changes to the structure of pensions, normal retirement age and indexation have reduced the cost of public service pensions by 25%.

Currently about 1.9% of GDP is spent on public service pensions, which is forecast to decline continuously to about 1.4% of GDP in 2050 (assuming current system were to continue unchanged).

Whilst this neither proves nor disproves whether public service pensions are affordable or not at the moment, it does show the cost is falling rather than rising in the future.

[Hence you won't have to pay higher taxes than now, so presumably you support the continuation of pensions in their current fomat ]

Source: Hutton interim report.

jackieblack

atush wrote: »

my husband is private sector and hasn't had a pay rise in 4 years. So why do you Public sctor workers think the streets are paved with gold with yearly rises? They aren't.

Not all public sector workers think that. Many of us are well aware that they aren't.

I work in the public sector. In a low-paid, part-time position.

I haven't had a pay rise in 3 years. Not getting one this year either.
No O/T, no bonuses, am expected to work extra hours unpaid as and when needed.

Most of my colleagues aren't in the pension scheme because we can't afford the contributions.

Turnbull2000

I remember that hilarious BBC piece on public v private very well. The one that picked a job with the most untypical private sector perks and pension arrangements, an employee who was in it for capitalist private sector big bucks and worked for a firm called 'Loadsamoney Ltd'. The public sector worker on the other hand was honoured just to serve the people of this country for his meagre pay check, and actually worked more hours and had a worse pension than the private sector bad boy. A joke of an article.

wearside_2

I consider myself one of the extremely fortunate ones to be in receipt of an Index Linked Civil Service Pension. I retired on health grounds about 8/9 years ago and therefore had my pension enhanced by 6 2/3 Years, resulting in being entitled to a pension of 40 (less 3 months)/80 of my final pension. In addition a lump sum of 3 times my annual pension was paid or in other words 1.5 times Final Salary, this is TAX FREE. Throughout my career my pension contribution was only 1.5% less tax relief.

At the time of my retirement, I discussed at great length with colleagues and family that it was a good time to accept retirement, as the existing deductions and Final Salary Scheme could not continue and I was leaving at the right time. If it was clear to me that this unsustainable scheme could not continue, why has it taken the Government so long to take their heads out of the sand and take the appropriate action.