Public sector wellcome to the real world

grizzly1911

property.advert wrote: »

Now we're all supposed to work until 20 minutes before we drop and pay half of our meagre earnings in taxes. No wonder people are rebelling and saying sod the system and squireling away what they can.

I bet it is closer to 65% (including Council tax , petrol duties, alcohol duties and VAT on practically everything that moves) for basic rate payers, more for those on higher rates and for graduates another 5% more at the start of higher rate threshold (9% averaged).

And it will only get worse.

It makes you wonder when, average Joe, will start to think why do I bother._pale_

grizzly1911

WhiteHorse wrote: »

Sharp.

For those who have eyes to see, that's clearly the intention. The NHS is gradually being deconstructed.

Eventually, the decentralised and carefully relabelled parts will be sold off to the private sector - probably to American and French companies, at a guess.

The American model is pants IMO.

From what I have read the US government pay more per head, than the NHS costs, just to top up their system. So many people just can't get affordable cover. Is that really what we want?

Much of the funding simply gets eaten up in bureaucracy. They may be able to claim better result in for specific groups but I would like to see how that pans out across the population.

I also understand that many PFI contracts are now being on sold for big money now that Government money is locked in inextricably. No doubt these will be traded until they collapse and Southern Cross take 2, 3&4 occur.

I also understand that the Government is picking up the tab on Southern Cross, indirectly as one of the Scottish Banks will be carrying the non performing debts prior to write off.

This country has gone mad.

With the benefit of hindsight, now that I have time to look at these things, it is becoming crystal clear.

The country has been like an old farmer, asset rich and cash poor for decades, we have progressively sold the acres and we are now down to the reaper shear.

I am sure some macroeconomic goon will tell us it really isn't like that form their statistics.

The sooner my kids can get there education complete and be out of here the better.

tommytynan123

[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]In support of Starrystarrynight & jamesd[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]I am massively fed up with the public sector getting a real hard time over pay, allowances, pensions. Very few of the 'public sector bashers' have accurate information. They quote figures picked up from the Sun or Fred down the pub.[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Rule No 1 is always 'get accurate info before you get on your soapbox' [/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]A very recent example was the press reporting of councils using a government credit card for purchases that appeared to have no link whatsoever with their output. TOTAL misreporting. [/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]I have worked for over 30 years for the 'government' split 50/50 uniform / MoD suit. Its strange that the bashers never mention the Forces. That's because the bashers know they would receive ridicule. But Forces are public sector so include them. For 16 years I was on call H24 – even walking around 'Magic Kingdom' with my family – 1 phone call and I was on the next flight back. NO EXTRA PAY[/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Civil Servants are part of the backbone of defence. They stay, indeed some do serve in operations, and keep things moving while the front line are away. The pay is OK, allowances are standard, working conditions OK and the pension better than most. SO WHAT ! When jobs in the Civil Service are advertised (it is not always internal) why did you not apply?? Not qualified?? When you applied for jobs did you read the pension small print? No? Should do really? I did ![/FONT]


[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]So how about all you bashers spend time looking at yourself and figuring out when, in your working life, you took the wrong turn.[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]LEAVE CIVIL SERVANTS ALONE and if you wish to bash then get some real facts and figures.[/FONT]

C_Mababejive

Perhaps we need som e public sector workers to state their positions on here i.e job/pay/pension /benefits etc...

Moby

roysterer wrote: »

What is happening today regarding Public Sector Pensions and contributions is what has already happened in the Private Sector.
Final salary Pensions are now gone forever!!!!!!! as much as we all dislike it.

2 years ago I went from a 5% Contribution 1/60th Final Salary scheme to a 10% Contribution 1/60th Career Average Pension.
This was non negotiable take it or leave it. So I guess the proposals put forward today are not so bad after all.

The feeble argument that Public Sector workers sacraficed higher earning potential by working in the Public Sector for greater Pension benefit is complete Bulls*** . If that's the case then wellcome to the private sector for those of you who think you can command far higher salaries, I think you will get a nasty surprise?

My contribution has doubled for less benefit. I am not prepared to pay higher income tax to subsidise public sector pensions as well.

I can guarantee that you will not receive any support if you choose to strike from the vast majority of private sector workers and private sector Trade Unionist.

Give it another few years and Career average will be taken away from us all, only for Defined Contribution rip off Annuity type Pensions to be left on the table.

I guess we have all been shafted by incompetent past and present governments. I feel sorry for the young people coming out of University in 4 years time with £50 - £60,000 of debt, they have got no chance of getting any good pension provision. Did the Public Sector Unionist consider them?
Answer:- a big fat NO. The Public Sector Metropolitan Police were hell bent on dealing with them as we all witnessed.

I'm a public sector worker who will be striking against this corrupt govmt and their treatment of public sector workers. I work hard and do a proper job which protects the general public. I'm not driven by the profit motive! I was told that because I was going into a 'vocation' I would be paid less but have the security of decent pension to compensate. So that 'contract' has now been ripped up and I've been told by the private sector profit driven bitters on this thread 'welcome to the real world'. Ok fine I'll lower my standards and join you all in the private sector because then I'll be able to fiddle my tax expenses much easier through not declaring my 'cash in hand' income.....like all the self employed, taxi drivers, plumbers, electricians, builders etc do on my street.

Besides the fact that you've lost a decent pension should not mean that mine is dragged down too....that's just bitterness. You and the rest of us should be campaigning for better pensions for everyone! Although I guess that those of us who are lets say of the 'right wing' persuasion don't really understand the concept of 'us' or 'co-operation'....... its all about me me me isn't it!

Instead of attacking hard pressed public sector workers some of the bitters on here need to wake up and look at the real scams and injustices of the 'black economy'. Every penny I earn is taxed at source but I see so many 'private sector' 'business types' lining their pockets with undeclared cash. That's where the finger of blame should point!:T

villabadger

Moby wrote: »

Instead of attacking hard pressed public sector workers some of the bitters on here need to wake up and look at the real scams and injustices of the 'black economy'. Every penny I earn is taxed at source but I see so many 'private sector' 'business types' lining their pockets with undeclared cash. That's where the finger of blame should point!:T

Think you are taking this a little off topic but........... you have a very blinkered view of running a small business. I run a small construction company and NEVER get the opportunity of a cash job because we do site work where all income/payments are traceable. All legimate expenses and receipts are accounted for and must be retained in case hmrc want to audit you. We have to act as tax collectors on behalf of them by submitting a vat return (and payment) every quarter - watch out if you happen to screw this up for some reason! As a construction company, hmrc don't believe we are trustworthy enough to handle our tax affairs correctly so they take 20% of our income away from us at source and we have to ask for it back - ltd companies are not treated like this in any other industry! I'm still waiting for cash back for the last 2 tax years which is screwing our cash flow - thanks to the civil servants at hmrc!!!!!

So, check your facts before you start bleeting about other injustices whilst you're sat in you're ivory tower or spending cash from your cushy pension scheme! I think the fingers of blame should be pointed directly at the government and the civil servants with all of the wasted cash and unaccountability. I do think there are exceptions to this though......forces, emergency services, nursing etc - at least the people who work on the 'coal face'.

Oh and if I did get offered work for cash - I'd snap their hands off.

real1314

C_Mababejive wrote: »

Perhaps we need som e public sector workers to state their positions on here i.e job/pay/pension /benefits etc...

I'm not sure knowing what individuals are paid would actually help. How would it if you don't know exactly what they do?

And wouldn't knowledge of private sector pay be needed too, for comparison purposes?

You want to start?

What's your pay?
What's your job?
How many hours a week do you work?
What bonuses do you get?
What favourable condidtions do you get?

:cool:

grizzly1911

Moby wrote: »

Besides the fact that you've lost a decent pension should not mean that mine is dragged down too....that's just bitterness. You and the rest of us should be campaigning for better pensions for everyone! Although I guess that those of us who are lets say of the 'right wing' persuasion don't really understand the concept of 'us' or 'co-operation'....... its all about me me me isn't it!

:T

Leaving aside the public v. private argument here we are all taking ourselves back decades by what is happening. That is reality, fine but it is evidence that the economy is in very bad place. It isn't just this government or the last, the degeneration has been going on since the 70's it is just becoming apparent to growing numbers of people.

Lets just hope the Chinese and Rusians look benevolently on us in the West in the decades to come:)

Moby

villabadger wrote: »

Think you are taking this a little off topic but........... you have a very blinkered view of running a small business. I run a small construction company and NEVER get the opportunity of a cash job because we do site work where all income/payments are traceable. All legimate expenses and receipts are accounted for and must be retained in case hmrc want to audit you. We have to act as tax collectors on behalf of them by submitting a vat return (and payment) every quarter - watch out if you happen to screw this up for some reason! As a construction company, hmrc don't believe we are trustworthy enough to handle our tax affairs correctly so they take 20% of our income away from us at source and we have to ask for it back - ltd companies are not treated like this in any other industry! I'm still waiting for cash back for the last 2 tax years which is screwing our cash flow - thanks to the civil servants at hmrc!!!!!

So, check your facts before you start bleeting about other injustices whilst you're sat in you're ivory tower or spending cash from your cushy pension scheme! I think the fingers of blame should be pointed directly at the government and the civil servants with all of the wasted cash and unaccountability. I do think there are exceptions to this though......forces, emergency services, nursing etc - at least the people who work on the 'coal face'.

Oh and if I did get offered work for cash - I'd snap their hands off.

I'll take your word for it regarding your experience....but its not mine. Actually I don't think I'm off topic or blinkered and by the way I do work on the 'coal face' as you put it and am definitely not in an ivory tower. Pensions cannot be seen in isolation from how people are rewarded for their work and from how we are taxed. That's senseless. Its always best to stay off politics in my view on this forum but the post that started this thread was very inflammatory and unfair to many people, especially in the present climate.

dori2o

I have no problem psting my job details

Department? HMRC
Position? Contact Centre- Taxes
Hours per week? 37
Annual Salary? £18k
latest pension projection- assuming 35 years service £5987 PA. (This includes 6 years pension contributions transferred in from old private sector employment scheme- BAE Systems)
Contribution? 3.5%
What bonuses do you get? NONE
What favourable conditions do you get? 25 days annual leave, plus bank 10.5 days bank holiday.