Public sector wellcome to the real world

Koicarp

I posted my own pension details yesterday thinking it may stimulate debate around a "real" publice service pension, only one person has commented- incorrectly but at least someone had a view!

Old_Slaphead

Koicarp wrote: »

I posted my own pension details yesterday thinking it may stimulate debate around a "real" publice service pension, only one person has commented- incorrectly but at least someone had a view!

My view - FWIW is that the pension is exactly what I would have expected based on the information that you provided so what is there to debate?

If you annuitise the tax free sum you'll get around £16kpa.

A pension fund of around £400,000 would be required to give a similar payout to someone not in a DB scheme.....over 34 years that would be around £8kpa in pension contribs.

Darren_G

Oops - it really is getting to be 'them & us' time again isn't it!

relic wrote: »

I've always been interested in where public sector workers get this idea that the jobs equal to theirs in the private sector are better paid?

This may be the case down south, but where I live public sector jobs in general have 40% higher wages than similar jobs in the private sector. I guess that's the problem with living in a smallish northern town.

- please tell me where I can get a 40% rise so I can move there!

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

Totally agree. Seems everywhere north of the M25 and maybe one or two large cities like Manchester & Edinburgh, public sector do very well pay/pension-wise compared to the rest of us.

- My home city has privatised the grass verge cutting. The average private sector operative, who is trained to use a grass cutter and little else, gets paid approximately £14,400 with bonuses and is paid premium rates (ie, 1.5 and double time) for overtime on top of this.

The equivalent job in the council is an 'assistant gardener', who gets paid just under £12,500, with no eligibility for bonuses. Most overtime is paid at plain time. Holiday entitlement is the same as his/her private sector counterpart. Assuming an 11% employer contribution, the total benefits package is £13,875, which is 4% lower than the private sector worker.

A manager in the same industry is paid approx £41k plus company car, mobile phone and pension with employer contributions, bringing the total to just over £43k.

A mid level 'principal officer' in local government with the same level of responsibility is paid a 'career grade' of between £29k and £34k, with no car and has to reimburse for any private calls made on their phone. Assuming the upper income level and local government employer contributions of 11%, the total public sector package is valued at a maximum of £37.7k. That puts the private sector employee at just over 13% more than the public employee

These are real examples, and what is more, regardless of how much of the overall pay is apportioned to pension or living wage, the sum totals are being paid out of 'taxpayers' money (used the term loosely, since some readers may not wish to differentiate between council tax and income tax)

Uglymug

Hi Koicarp,

I was very interested in your pension details:


To achieve a similar pension (£14875 index linked at age 60) a person in the private sector would have to contribute nearly half a million pounds to their pension and pray the stock market doesn’t crash the day before they buy their annuity.
Fortunately most normal hard working private sector employees will not have managed to save quite that much and will be forced to continue working. Luckily this means that they can continue paying their taxes which will go towards paying for the public sector pensions.

cyclonebri1

relic wrote: »

I've always been interested in where public sector workers get this idea that the jobs equal to theirs in the private sector are better paid?

This may be the case down south, but where I live public sector jobs in general have 40% higher wages than similar jobs in the private sector. I guess that's the problem with living in a smallish northern town.

:T:T:T

To dam true, where do they get that idea.

This has trully become an us and them situation and the only reason I can see is that the public sector didn't see, or want to see what happening in the real world to the rest of us, I'm sorry but that is my view, take it, leave it or argue, it's just my opinion.

Sobraon

Uglymug that's interesting. I transferred 2 years pension contributions in the mid 80s from GEC to the Pearl into a "with profits" bond. The Pearl performance has been very poor but it looks like I will get about 3.5K additional pension (not index linked) from the bond when I am 65. So on the reasonable assumption that index linking halves annuity rates, that particular 2 years in private industry gives me an index linked pension of £1700/pa.

I think this illustrates the effect of the three big raids by government on pensions since the 80's and also why we are in a race to the bottom with provision for retirement.

jackyann

relic wrote: »

I've always been interested in where public sector workers get this idea that the jobs equal to theirs in the private sector are better paid?

I certainly haven't, but a lot of public sector jobs have no real private equivalent.
A nurse, which is all I know about, is usually paid about the same or a grade higher for similar responsibilities in the private sector. However, you can only equate a few hospital jobs; most community work, A&E etc. has no private equivalent.
Similarly fire fighters, paramedics & police - there are a few similar-sounding private jobs, but the responsibilities are different.
A lot of these jobs simply have to be done by the public sector, and we need a real debate about what we, as a society believe them to be worth, and whether we think age is an issue (the original reason for the "special classes") then pension provision, like taxes can be equally applied.

Old_Slaphead

Darren_G wrote: »

- My home city has privatised the grass verge cutting. The average private sector operative, who is trained to use a grass cutter and little else, gets paid approximately £14,400 with bonuses and is paid premium rates (ie, 1.5 and double time) for overtime on top of this.

The equivalent job in the council is an 'assistant gardener', who gets paid just under £12,500, with no eligibility for bonuses. Most overtime is paid at plain time. Holiday entitlement is the same as his/her private sector counterpart. Assuming an 11% employer contribution, the total benefits package is £13,875, which is 4% lower than the private sector worker.

Ok show us your evidence that both jobs are identical. Are hours worked, duties & responsibilities the same? Holidays, sick pay, job security etc etc

Also councils are paying much more into than you suggest into their employees pensions funds - my council is paying between 17.6 and 22% - and they're still underfunded! Let me know if you require evidence and I'll email you a copy of their latest accounts.

nb - I didn't say every single public sector worker fared better - I said that they seem to do well in comparison outside of London

Uglymug

Hi Darren G

Re: your gardener example.

Anyone who accepted a private sector job paying £14,400 in favour of a public sector one paying £12,500 would need his head examining.
The council obviously privatised this position to reduce costs.

chesky369

I don't buy this north/south divide, implying that everyone down south is rolling in money and/or earning huge wages. There are literally hundreds of people working at places like Heathrow airport for the catering and service industries there, earning the basic minimum wage - then they have to find somewhere to live in an area which has some of the highest rents in the country. They're certainly not living the high life.