Public sector wellcome to the real world

taking_stock

Le_Chuck wrote: »

TBF, that isn't an example of an accrued benefit.

accrual has a specific meaning in pensions and the term 'accrued benefit' is ambiguous at best. what i said was precisely correct.
go read a glossary of terms chucky

sam.4000

Don't you just think we are all screwed. The private pensions were ruined when the government allowed companies to money out the pension pot. Public pension (that the government have been creaming off the excess for years) are now costing more so of course public sector workers need to pay more as why should tax payers have to pay this!
Everything is in the short term, after the war the population grew rapidly (generation now just retired) and then fell so there more money would be needed in the pension pot but of course our government only realise they have a problem now. This forcast 30 years ago or more but nothing is ever done about it till they can turn it to their advantage. As tax payers paying for public sector pensions but this has not always been the case.
I think that even as a public sector worker we are all screwed whether we work in the private or public sector. Soon there will be no public sector workers as this government are hell bent on privatising every service NHS, schools (into academies), social services and anything else they can. This is of course to[STRIKE] save money[/STRIKE] screw everyone over so we all feel we have been treated equally.
Do you really think this government give a toss about anyone, the only people that are exempt are the fat cats/ rich (some of which cause the economic crisis) and the only people that this will not affect.
Remember in roughly 2 years time when the government want to start it re-election campaign by reducing VAT or some other softener to get them re-elected. Public sector workers will be opting out of paying pensions ( and yes they now are getting that choice) who will then pay for their pensions in years to come.
We should all be made to pay into a pension for our future and our countries, Austalia and New Zealand do this now why can't our government see this.

CFC

dori2o wrote: »

Are you, or any of you, aware of how much the 'gold plated super duper' pensions cost the govenment/taxpayer.

Care to hazard a guess?

Based on some of the idiotic posts on here you'd think it was 10%, 30%, 65%.

No. The actual cost is 1.9% of GDP, and this amount is coming down year on year without changing the goalposts.

.

total NHS spending is around 7% of GDP - so 1.9% is an AWFUL lot of money in comparison.

Moby

roysterer wrote: »

It seems pretty clear to me that there is a complete split between Public Sector and Private Sector workers in this country regarding their pension provision.
What options are available to this current and future governments with regards to funding the Public Sector Pensions in their current format??????
Option 1, Increase taxation and community charges.
Option 2, Increase taxation and community charges and VAT.
Option 3, Increase taxation and community charges and VAT, and dream up some more taxation like the recent increased tax on north sea oil producers (even though this will probably result in Jobs being cut in the oil industry and Producers like BP moving from the north sea).
Option 4, Just carry on borrowing recklessly and let our grandchildren pick up the tab.
Option 5, The Bankers can fund it with their bonuses?? (will it be enough??) I don't think so some how??

So on Thursday when your on strike perhaps you might like to think about how your Pension is going to be funded??????

THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY ARE NOT PREPARED FOR OPTIONS 1, 2, 3, & 4 TO BE APPLIED. AS FOR OPTION 5, THEN WE WILL GO 50-50 BETWEEN PRIVATE AND PUBLIC SECTOR AND HAVE HALF EACH = EVERYONES HAPPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Title of this thread was wellcome to the real world so forget option 5.

I think in your ignorance of the issues you're getting ahead of yourself. You cannot speak for 'THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY'....as you so arrogantly put it. You also persist in lumping all the schemes together totally ignoring the points made to you about some of them, (eg the largest LGPS) already being self funded.

This is a hugely complicated issue which has been grossly simplified by this cynical Government and their Roysterer type mouthpieces. Its sad that their agenda of divide and rule and pushing through contentious policies by pitching the 'rabble' as they see us against each other is succeeding. The rhetoric has now been pitched at such a level that genuine debate about the future is lost in the 'I'm not paying for your pension' slanging match. I repeat changes had already been made to many of the schemes, (especially the biggest LGPS) and further changes were being discussed.......but what then happened was disgraceful. The Government with Danny Alexander as a mouthpiece, decided to pre-empt the negotiations by stating their intentions no matter how negotiations went! It served their purposes to turn the Teachers, Immigration staff etc into union militants. This does two things.... the Daily Fail and Torygraph readership amongst us lap it up, the rest of us are weakened as an opposition so they can move on to their next agenda of mass privatisation.....pure Thatcherite divide and rule tactics appealing to the base emotions of greed and anger.

Its just all so predictable.... in the coming years the full range of 'sensitive issue' buttons will be pressed in order to prod the anger and righteous indignation of the 'deserving public'. 'Benefit scroungers', immigration, single young mothers, European Community, lazy students etc to drive through legislation that will weaken the rights and security of many thousands of working people.

cyclonebri1

jackyann wrote: »

To go back to my original point, I don't know if that is fair or not, just as I don't know if my situation is fair or not.
However, I am not aware of any of my medical colleagues having any different pension arrangement to the rest of the NHS (1/80)[/QUOTE]


Dig a little deeper, that isn't the top line figure




The overall issue is that this situation has happened gradually in the private sector over the last 10 years or so. In that time public sector peeps have continued to gain benefits under their original system, which was likely to be similar to many old private companies.

BUT, the realisation has come in bullet fashion now, not gradual but immediate, hence the shock/ horror/ suprise, that crept up on us.

What did "Dave" say?, were're all in it together, he just didn't say how deep it was

Andy_L

jackyann wrote: »

However, I am not aware of any of my medical colleagues having any different pension arrangement to the rest of the NHS (1/80)

NHS has both "1/80ths + 3x lump sum & NRA60" and "1/60ths & NRA65" schemes depending on when you joined

Practitioners have a career average scheme instead of final salary

greektony

Mr_K wrote: »

Why do a certain section of society hate anybody that works in the public sector ? Is it jealousy because they've chosen higher paid jobs that contribute nothing to society and have failed to make adequate pension provision ? Yes the public sector pension's are reasonable. Granted, a few at the very top do very well but they'll will be the ones to be least affected by this. The vast majority are on low wages with a pension of less than £5k . The private sector caused this crisis (i.e banks) who are still paying themselves massive bonuses.

Longer lifespans will mean pension reform for everyone. What's being proposed however is overly vindictive, for the sake of it, on those that can least afford it. It will backfire when nobody wants to work in the public sector any longer. No health service, no police, no service provided in where there isn't a profit involved. This is turning into a horrible country to live in.

You are the biggest moron I have seen today. Congratulations

relic

I've always been interested in where public sector workers get this idea that the jobs equal to theirs in the private sector are better paid?

This may be the case down south, but where I live public sector jobs in general have 40% higher wages than similar jobs in the private sector. I guess that's the problem with living in a smallish northern town.

Koicarp

What is a "similar job?
Porter at the Royal Brompton- £6.08 per hour.
Cook, fulltime, Cardiff £13903 per annum.
Health care assistant, full time Royal Brompton, £13653 per annum

Old_Slaphead

relic wrote: »

This may be the case down south, but where I live public sector jobs in general have 40% higher wages than similar jobs in the private sector. I guess that's the problem with living in a smallish northern town.

Totally agree. Seems everywhere north of the M25 and maybe except for one or two large cities like Manchester & Edinburgh, public sector do very well pay/pension-wise compared to the rest of us.