Are the CSA rates fair?

clearingout

how often does 50/50 actually mean 50/50 though? Rarely, I suspect. I went for 18 months 'sharing care' with my ex. Except it was me who paid for everything school related, preschool costs, afterschool activities, childcare on days when the ex had them overnight (for which I did not receive Working Tax Credit). It was me who took time off work if one of them was ill and the ex took a holiday at 3 days notice, refusing to put in place any arrangements so I could manage my work whilst he was away. All whilst he paid no maintenance whatsoever whilst earning approximately 3 times what I was AFTER you take into account tax credit, child benefit etc . I'm sorry, but there is nothing whatsoever 'shared' about that. It's reducing maintenance liability, nothing else.

Personally, I think 'shared care' is, in 99% of cases, complete bollox. If you want to pay no maintenance then you genuinely share care on both good and bad days, and you share ALL costs and make sure that both 'sides' have a similar standard of living. And it'll only ever work if you can communicate which, let's face it, most of us can't!

fannyanna

I don't think it's fair but personally I can't think of a better system.

Whatever you do it's always going to be unfair to someone.

jetta_wales

fannyanna wrote: »

I don't think it's fair but personally I can't think of a better system.

Whatever you do it's always going to be unfair to someone.

You think the amount is too high?

mspa

clearing out, I agree. Theres alway bad and good on both sides of the arguement. I see both sides and it all unfair. my ex owes my over £17,000 in arrears and has given my daughter nothing, no time or money. My partner has given his all (and I have to his children too) and we are constantly being chased for more which then takes away from my daughter. It seems to be a no win situation for anyone.

~BB~

I don't think it's fair and you know the CSA people you talk to don't think it is in my case either. My ex pays £40 a week for my daughter. He won't buy her anything else, not one penny more as he says he gives me enough!!
He never has her for a night, that's his choice.
He's self employed and cooks his books to show very little income, he drives a fancy car, has a mansion of a house, has a great lifestyle always eating out, holidays with the girlfriend all over the world etc etc
They say his liefstyle doesn't match the income but can't do that much about it!
Not a very fair system when your ex is dishonest and knows how to work the system!

PreludeForTimeFeelers

~BB~ wrote: »

I don't think it's fair and you know the CSA people you talk to don't think it is in my case either. My ex pays £40 a week for my daughter. He won't buy her anything else, not one penny more as he says he gives me enough!!
He never has her for a night, that's his choice.
He's self employed and cooks his books to show very little income, he drives a fancy car, has a mansion of a house, has a great lifestyle always eating out, holidays with the girlfriend all over the world etc etc
They say his liefstyle doesn't match the income but can't do that much about it!
Not a very fair system when your ex is dishonest and knows how to work the system!

Have you considered reporting him to Inland Revenue for tax evasion?

fannyanna

jetta_wales wrote: »

You think the amount is too high?

Hey Jetta.

No I was talking in general about whether the system was fair.

From what I can remember about what your ex is paying I wouldn't be too concerned about asking him to pay the full CSA assessment. He's fortunate that you've been so accomodating in the past.

AnxiousMum

Jetta - the CSA has to have a set figure to take into account everybody's circumstances. Yet, every child, every household is different in terms of income, and in terms of what the hopes and aspirations of the child are.

If you've brought up your child expecting them to go to university - then the child support also needs to be budgeted so that some money is put away for that time in their lives IF INCOME allows it. In households who wouldn't qualify for much of a maintenance grant when the child goes to university - the parents are expected to contribute towards the lviing costs. As CSA stops before that time, then obviously, some of the child support should be put away for that time in life.

While everybody seems to look at child support as a 'monthly cost of the child' - that's not necessarily true. In a family with mum and dad, most parents will put money aside into an account for a child, or put money aside towards when the child is into more expensive things.

For example - my 12 yr old started high school this year - and promptly came home with the annual field trip notices - £180 for Year 7 camp, £385 for a four day Spain/France trip, and a whopping £3,000 odd for a ski trip to Italy when he's in year 10. Now the Italy one is totally optional - but that's something that his dad and I have been putting money aside for so that he can go with his friends, and he's also doing odd jobs to make money towards it. If his Dad was to say, I'm only going to contribute his cost of food, clothes and necessities each month and nothing more, then obviously these trips would be hard to meet the cost of on my wage alone - but by budgeting as a family, we will be able to ensure he gets the full enjoyment of his school and trips with friends that go along with it.
With my two eldest who I was getting child support for both, (now only the one in university) - my 22 yr old has been able to start life with some money in the bank - as he left university so had the funds available that were saved over the years towards that. My next son will have child support paid for him while in university (Canadian order) but in year 4 when he wants to go into Medicine, he has to pay that entire year of tuition up front - which now, could be £9,000. So, money that has been put aside for him, will of course be going to pay that - JUST AS IF THE DAD AND I WERE STILL TOGETHER.

So, while you look at the amount and figure that it is alot right now, and more than what your child needs, there may be a day down the road where that money is needed for your child/ren, and maybe at that time, the dad isn't working and theres a nil assessment. That's when you will kick yourself in the teeth for not taking what is supposed to be paid at the time it was payable. If the money is too much for current needs, put it away for them for when it is needed - because it WILL be needed at some point.

izzybusy23

jetta_wales wrote: »

I agree it is unfair if it's 50/50 care but that is not the case with us he only has them for two nights a week.

If we're looking at how much the kids cost us per se then it's definitely a hell of a lot more than 20% of our income so in that respect I don't think expecting the same of him is unreasonable and less the nights he has them it would be just 14.29% of his net. He earns about £32k a year.

I do feel like I've considered his debts for too long now though and every month I'm asking for less I'm the one being frugal so he can pay off his debts. Thing is though, in this time he's only made his debts worse not better. He is now half heartedly making some effort with them but it really isn't amounting to much from what he's said. He's had a few months now to look at debt management and hasn't got anywhere yet, I think he's filled one form in on-line with the direct gov web site and then just says "oh they haven't sent me anything yet still" and forgets all about it.

Since we've split I could have had about £10k more from him than I actually have had (didn't ask for anything at all in the beginning). If he gets himself in a mess despite being let off for all that much (many PWC's take the full lot straight away) then really I don't think any amount of further least will make any difference to his situation either.

If I do say I'd like to get it up to the CSA figure ultimately then I don't think he'll be prepared for it even in 6 months time when it finally gets to that level but I'm just tired now of going soft on him just because of his debts, they're not my fault, they're not the kids faults and they'd definitely be £120 a month worse if I hadn't been asking for that much in child support. It seems like any money he thinks he can spare each month he then allocates to a hire purchase product of some sort. If he has to pay for anything extra any month then it goes on credit card without a second thought.

I guess I'm so used to mollycoddling him it still feels wrong to finally stop doing it.

I told you in a recent post that I thought you were being too kind on your ex but you scoffed me! Personally if he cannot manage on 80% of what seems to be a fair income (or 85%, sorry don't know if you get 15 or 20%) then that is his look out, not yours. You should want the best for your children; why should you scrimp because your ex has debts? They are his problem not your yours.

No, I don't think the CSA payments are fair. But then thats probably because I am only getting 10% at the moment as there are two PWC's and soon to be 8% because my ex can't keep his d.ick in his trousers and stop producing kids he doesn't want.

jetta_wales

AnxiousMum wrote: »

Jetta - the CSA has to have a set figure to take into account everybody's circumstances. Yet, every child, every household is different in terms of income, and in terms of what the hopes and aspirations of the child are.

If you've brought up your child expecting them to go to university - then the child support also needs to be budgeted so that some money is put away for that time in their lives IF INCOME allows it. In households who wouldn't qualify for much of a maintenance grant when the child goes to university - the parents are expected to contribute towards the lviing costs. As CSA stops before that time, then obviously, some of the child support should be put away for that time in life.

While everybody seems to look at child support as a 'monthly cost of the child' - that's not necessarily true. In a family with mum and dad, most parents will put money aside into an account for a child, or put money aside towards when the child is into more expensive things.

For example - my 12 yr old started high school this year - and promptly came home with the annual field trip notices - £180 for Year 7 camp, £385 for a four day Spain/France trip, and a whopping £3,000 odd for a ski trip to Italy when he's in year 10. Now the Italy one is totally optional - but that's something that his dad and I have been putting money aside for so that he can go with his friends, and he's also doing odd jobs to make money towards it. If his Dad was to say, I'm only going to contribute his cost of food, clothes and necessities each month and nothing more, then obviously these trips would be hard to meet the cost of on my wage alone - but by budgeting as a family, we will be able to ensure he gets the full enjoyment of his school and trips with friends that go along with it.
With my two eldest who I was getting child support for both, (now only the one in university) - my 22 yr old has been able to start life with some money in the bank - as he left university so had the funds available that were saved over the years towards that. My next son will have child support paid for him while in university (Canadian order) but in year 4 when he wants to go into Medicine, he has to pay that entire year of tuition up front - which now, could be £9,000. So, money that has been put aside for him, will of course be going to pay that - JUST AS IF THE DAD AND I WERE STILL TOGETHER.

So, while you look at the amount and figure that it is alot right now, and more than what your child needs, there may be a day down the road where that money is needed for your child/ren, and maybe at that time, the dad isn't working and theres a nil assessment. That's when you will kick yourself in the teeth for not taking what is supposed to be paid at the time it was payable. If the money is too much for current needs, put it away for them for when it is needed - because it WILL be needed at some point.

The future is absolutely the point I agree, if you ask my girls what our plans are they'll tell you about it, if you asked them what their Dad'll be doing in the future they'd say something along the lines of "don't know, same as now I guess". He'll never save for them there's no question about that and he'll never be financially stable enough to help with anything major like a wedding or first car etc, unless some fool let's him have another credit card maybe.