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Public Sector Pensions - Are they really so bad?
Comments
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grizzly1911 wrote: »IMO 5-7k is closer to the figure than the £20K+.
That is not what is said £5-£7K is for all drawing regardless of duration of service. (so obviously lowered by people not working in it for very long)
He says if you worked in the public sector for 40 years you would expect 2/3rd of your final salary. (not 20K)
Presumably that is down to increased contribution over the period of employment?
Where is he going wrong in that?0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »Their are two sides to the equation pension/benefit call it what you want to top up and then there is the non payment on the other. Net difference is what we are talking about.
So that is why you need to include an average private pension in the figures.
Likewise there will be many things skewing the public sector pensions but we don't throw away the data because of that.0 -
Not sure how that portrays with public and private sector pensions to be honest?
The pension received by a lowly paid worker effectively takes them out of benefits in the same way taht having savings overa certain threshold does.
The lowly paid worker in the public sector who doesn't/hasn't atken out a pension would fall into category 2.
This bit of the thread went off lowly paid workers. It was a hijack of the main thread.
It just shows that there are headline news and reality.
I do not dispute that there are well off pensioners (public servants) it is just not all. There are also well off pensioners (private sector too - lets think Fred Goodwin bet his cashiers haven't got mega pensions either on £13 -£15 K salary a year, even on the old DB schemes."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
So that is why you need to include an average private pension in the figures.
Likewise there will be many things skewing the public sector pensions but we don't throw away the data because of that.
I think that you will find that on a distribution graph pension take up in the private sector will be to the right of that for the public sector. Almost all public sector workers will ahve some pension whilst in the private sector only the better paid will start to take them up.
Also the average private sector pension is not the same as the pension payable to private sector recipients divided by those eligible to have had a private pension."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
That is not what is said £5-£7K is for all drawing regardless of duration of service. (so obviously lowered by people not working in it for very long)
He says if you worked in the public sector for 40 years you would expect 2/3rd of your final salary. (not 20K)
Presumably that is down to increased contribution over the period of employment?
Where is he going wrong in that?
So if that is average there will some with none, don't forget there are also a lot of part timers across council roles too so they will be pro rata.
A few highly paid staff will also distort the weighted average. As will the data pararmeters selection .
In the NHS it is 50% and Education I believe. I guess it depend what you class a public sector.
Using 5k average for average across 150 employees. If 2 have a pension of 50, 2 at 25 and 10 at 10 then the rest would average 3.7K or a 27% reduction to the average.
The 20k figure was out of thin air on my part but would be equivalent to £40K salary at 40years/50% or would drop to £10k at 20 years.
Pretty certain that contribution doesn't count, it is years service in final salary. If you work partime in the interim then that will factor it down, as will taking a lower paid job towards the end of your career, perhaps taking a lower stress job."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »whilst in the private sector only the better paid will start to take them up.
That's just made up nonsense.0 -
That's just made up nonsense.
On what evidence do you justify that?
Have you worked in temporary jobs, part time jobs,manual jobs, jobs on the minimum wage, contract jobs.
Depends what you term better paid. Do you pay the rent, feed the meter, put food on the table, shoes on your kids feet, pay the tally man or worry about the future."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
I just started working in the public sector last year. My observations would be (I have to confine this to my particular field which is limited to being a chartered surveyor in the private sector and lecturing in the same area in the public sector).
1. The salary is so larger (by a huge degree) in the private sector that the public sector is unlikely to attract the best from the private sector (I however was early retired and working PT in the private sector just didn't work for me as I always ended up doing a FT job in PT hours, I am not the sort of person to walk out the office if there is an issue/problem that needs resolving). There is no way I would go back to working FT.
2. It wasn't until I started analysing the value of pensions that I was in a position to appreciate the extra value of a public sector pension, this seriously cuts into the salary disadvantage in 1 above.
3. Of course 2 above does theoretically make up most of the difference in salary BUT not to mortgage lenders so (as far as I can see) anyone wanting to get on the housing ladder or trade up is compromised in the public sector, as the additional value of the pension will not assist here.
4. Although the proposed approx 3.5% increase in contributions to the public sector is still a good deal, it is moving the goal posts for those that weighed up the pros and cons of the private and public sectors quite a few years ago. There are not many top private QS practices that would touch a public sector worker.Chuck Norris can kill two stones with one birdThe only time Chuck Norris was wrong was when he thought he had made a mistakeChuck Norris puts the "laughter" in "manslaughter".I've started running again, after several injuries had forced me to stop0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »Sorry, shouldn't have wrote "on call". Couldn't think of anything to describe "have to work regardless of the holidays, christmas etc and get no extra payment".
I agree "on call" was misleading. Meant the work is around the clock and never stops.
The reason you couldn't think of anything to describe it is becasue there is no such thing
Except for the armed forces and the top grades of the rest (who don't get paid overtime) any public sector worker who comes in on bank holidays will either be on a shift pattern that pays a premium to compensate or be paid overtime at an enhanced rate.0 -
The reason you couldn't think of anything to describe it is becasue there is no such thing
Except for the armed forces and the top grades of the rest (who don't get paid overtime) any public sector worker who comes in on bank holidays will either be on a shift pattern that pays a premium to compensate or be paid overtime at an enhanced rate.
I regularly work Saturdays, Sundays, bank hols (and also as early as 4 am on weekdays) at home when marking or preparing my lectures. I do it because as always I strive to be the best in what I do, money doesn't even enter into my thoughts for one second.Chuck Norris can kill two stones with one birdThe only time Chuck Norris was wrong was when he thought he had made a mistakeChuck Norris puts the "laughter" in "manslaughter".I've started running again, after several injuries had forced me to stop0
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