Public Sector Pensions - Are they really so bad?

StevieJ

Kennyboy66 wrote: »

The mean average public sector pension is £7k not £5k

http://www.tuc.org.uk/extras/publicsectorpensions.pdf

OK, it was off the top of my head but most people seem to think they are on a fortune. I don't think that sort of pension is that advantageous compared to a private sector worker with no pension provision.

Public sector worker (no property)
PS pension 7k + State pension 5.5k = 12.5k

Private Sector worker (no property)

State pension 5.5k + rent (500*12) 6k + council tax (100 per month) 1.2k = £12.7k

Really2

grizzly1911 wrote: »

Para 2:- that is what they are trying to do but convincing a lot of lower paid people to contribute , when they can ill afford to live in the first place, is not an easy job especially when there is a potential Equitable Life Scenario.

If the State underwrites the provision isn't that pretty much status quo?

Para 3:-

In an ideal world yes. In outsourcing as a whole wages tend to be depressed in most cases or substantially less e.g. Banagalore call centres (or in the UK for that matter )to make it stack up.

When you start debating minimum or living wage territory there is a pretty blunt tipping point between state and private sector. A lot receive benefits on top anyway to subsist.

But what I am failing to see is what justifies it in the public sector, we cant use this as

"Well it stops them claiming benefits when they are older"

As it is fairly obvious it is vastly unfair on those working in the private sector in low paid jobs. (I presume the public sector would not like to pay extra so they get better pensions to avoid this)

There is no guarantee the poorer will fit the criteria in the future so it is not justifiable subsidising some in their working life just based on they deserve it as they work for the state.
If they want less divide between the public sector and private the justification of you possibly get it back if you are poor when you retire is not a good one IMHO.

Really2

StevieJ wrote: »

OK, it was off the top of my head but most people seem to think they are on a fortune. I don't think that sort of pension is that advantageous compared to a private sector worker with no pension provision.

Public sector worker (no property)
PS pension 7k + State pension 5.5k = 12.5k

Private Sector worker (no property)

State pension 5.5k + rent (500*12) 6k + council tax (100 per month) 1.2k = £12.7k

All you are doing is showing how vastly unfair it is to subsidising one in their working life when on the same wage?

although I hate the mail

The average private sector worker retires with a pension pot worth £25,100 - enough to pay them about £1,700 a year.

it goes on to this, but possible bull
The average public sector worker will retire with a pot of £427,275 - worth £17,091 a year.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1082511/Browns-17-000-tax-raid-EVERY-private-pension--value-cushy-public-sector-schemes-soars-1trillion.html#ixzz1PLzDxMUf

So the reality is, your average worker does not get all of the above as your average worker gets £35 per week pension.

PS pension 7k + State pension 5.5k = 12.5k

Private Sector worker (no property)

State pension 5.5k +1.7K pension = £7.2k (pension credit limit is £7142.20)

Seem like you forgot to average the averages.

Graham_Devon

Really2 wrote: »

All you are doing is showing how vastly unfair it is to subsidising one in their working life when on the same wage?

although I hate the mail

That's probably including hundreds of thousands of private sector workers who don't even have access to an employee pension scheme.

Those figures are seriously dubious, at best.

Old_Slaphead

Kennyboy66 wrote: »

The mean average public sector pension is £7k not £5k

http://www.tuc.org.uk/extras/publicsectorpensions.pdf

An average public servant putting in 40 years will have pension circa £12.5k plus tax free lump sum of £37.5k (which should generate another £1.5k, if annuitised).

If the average employee is on less than that it's because the average service is less than 40 years FTE.

An average of £7k pension represents about 20 years service - employee could/should have built up more in another job.

Kennyboy66

StevieJ wrote: »

OK, it was off the top of my head but most people seem to think they are on a fortune. I don't think that sort of pension is that advantageous compared to a private sector worker with no pension provision.

Public sector worker (no property)
PS pension 7k + State pension 5.5k = 12.5k

Private Sector worker (no property)

State pension 5.5k + rent (500*12) 6k + council tax (100 per month) 1.2k = £12.7k

In this scenario the public sector worker would get 1/2 rent paid via HB & most of council tax as well.

I don't think the issue is with these pensioners - its the consultant doctors / head teachers / judges / higher civil servants.

Educated by the state, trained by the state, paid all life by the state - and seemingly determined to gouge as much out of the state till death.

StevieJ

Really2 wrote: »

All you are doing is showing how vastly unfair it is to subsidising one in their working life when on the same wage?

although I hate the mail



.

But it won't stop me quoting if it backs what I am trying to say
As Kenny wrote, the average public sector pension is £7k.

StevieJ

Kennyboy66 wrote: »

In this scenario the public sector worker would get 1/2 rent paid via HB & most of council tax as well.

I don't think the issue is with these pensioners - its the consultant doctors / head teachers / judges / higher civil servants.

Educated by the state, trained by the state, paid all life by the state - and seemingly determined to gouge as much out of the state till death.

Then again the private sector worker would receive pension credit in addition I was just trying to keep it simple for effect. I agree with you on the other.

Really2

StevieJ wrote: »

But it won't stop me quoting if it backs what I am trying to say
As Kenny wrote, the average public sector pension is £7k.

But the average private sector is £1700 which then stops all the benefits people were quoting the average private sector worker would be entitled to? (I think they are rellient on pension credit)


You have to allow an average private sector pension in the figures if you are quoting averages surely, otherwise it is designing a perfect storm as justificacion?

Really2

StevieJ wrote: »

Then again the private sector worker would receive pension credit in addition I was just trying to keep it simple for effect. I agree with you on the other.

As I was debating, pension credit is only up to £137.35 per week.

If you pop that in with the average private pension it works out they don't get it.;)