Public Sector Pensions - Are they really so bad?

grizzly1911

beecher2 wrote: »

That's not really the case any more - post job evaluation/single status there's very little in the way of overtime payments and many public holidays are treated as normal days should you choose to work them. Core hours have also been changed which means less overtime.

That is certainly my understanding for The NHS in clinical roles. And there is another round of evaluation (which will no doubt strive to take them roles downwards),

Thrugelmir

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

Would you explain further with perhaps some evidence?

An extract from a 2007 ONS report ( full details Table 13 on link)

Public-as % of workforce
Degree level or equivalent 32.4
Higher 15.7
GCSE A level 18.1
GCSE Grades A to C or equivalent 19.4
Other qualifications 8.6
No qualifications 5.7

Private- as %of workforce
Degree level or equivalent 19.2
Higher 7.9
GCSE A Level 26.2
GCSE Grades A to C or equivalent 23.3
Other qualifications 13.2
No qualifications 10.3

A reflection of the low wage economy the UK has become.........

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/elmr/05_07/downloads/ELMR_0507Millard_Machin.pdf

grizzly1911

Thrugelmir wrote: »

An extract from a 2007 ONS report ( full details Table 13 on link)

Public-as % of workforce
Degree level or equivalent 32.4
Higher 15.7
GCSE A level 18.1
GCSE Grades A to C or equivalent 19.4
Other qualifications 8.6
No qualifications 5.7

Private- as %of workforce
Degree level or equivalent 19.2
Higher 7.9
GCSE A Level 26.2
GCSE Grades A to C or equivalent 23.3
Other qualifications 13.2
No qualifications 10.3

A reflection of the low wage economy the UK has become.........

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/elmr/05_07/downloads/ELMR_0507Millard_Machin.pdf

I suppose it doesn't necessarily mean you have a higher paid job just that you need a certain level of qualification to get the job.

I know a lot of private individuals who are wealthy and not highly qualified. But I also know a number of dingbats too:think:

Really2

grizzly1911 wrote: »

I suppose it doesn't necessarily mean you have a higher paid job just that you need a certain level of qualification to get the job.

I am not sure how you could justify that though if a degree was required it would some how point to a degree is worth more in the public sector than the private sector. (EG the jobs are there to support the need of qualification)

In the private sector you would only need professional status for say accountancy, Barrister etc.
And wages to tend to be higher for those types of jobs.

Public sector you need it to teach, Doctor, Nurse (not degree but diploma) etc.
Again it would be foolhardy to say those jobs do not demand a higher wage than non professional jobs in the sectors.

The TUC use that as the reasoning for the public sector being paid more on average? (so if they accept that is the case I am unsure why others don't)

Perhaps the state support of the pensions should be reviewed based on earnings as I can agree with some on here it is hard to justify giving basically a state enhanced pension to people who are getting a decent wage.

beecher2

I get angered by some of the reporting on public sector pensions as it lumps them all together. Today the BBC states that retirement age is "currently set at 60" when this is not the case for all public sector workers. My pension pays out at State Pension age at present.

They also tend to report on these schemes as being unfunded, when my local government scheme is fully funded. I don't know how we can have a real debate on pensions when there is so much misinformation.

Gorgeous_George

If you apply for a job and accept it on the terms offered, those terms should be honoured. Any changes (to those terms) should be introduced only through negotiation. The ConDems have signalled no desire to negotiate.

They will learn. Cameron will not get away with doing to relatively low paid, loyal staff what Thatcher did to the miners. This will be the summer of our discontent.

I hope that when the streets are filled with demonstrators, the UN sends in the troops.

GG

grizzly1911

beecher2 wrote: »

I get angered by some of the reporting on public sector pensions as it lumps them all together. Today the BBC states that retirement age is "currently set at 60" when this is not the case for all public sector workers. My pension pays out at State Pension age at present.

They also tend to report on these schemes as being unfunded, when my local government scheme is fully funded. I don't know how we can have a real debate on pensions when there is so much misinformation.

I also heard on the BBC a debate that did not include all the facts too it is the same through the media and politicians . We never actually have a published"tariff" of benefits, contributions and costs.

In the case I heard one person (61) was working past public sector pension age because of need and couldn't afford to drop just to the PSP .

The second who had a private sector pension, which wasn't discussed, was then allowed to say that they were being compelled to work till 65/66 for the State Pension, as we all are for a people of a certain youth and compare contrast to the PSP, which were totally unrelated.:mad:

smartn

Gorgeous_George wrote: »

If you apply for a job and accept it on the terms offered, those terms should be honoured. Any changes (to those terms) should be introduced only through negotiation. The ConDems have signalled no desire to negotiate.

They will learn. Cameron will not get away with doing to relatively low paid, loyal staff what Thatcher did to the miners. This will be the summer of our discontent.

I hope that when the streets are filled with demonstrators, the UN sends in the troops.

GG

Thats a rather simplistic view. The alternative would perhaps be to cut more staff as we dont have an infinite supply of money to pay public sector wages (unless we keep printing it of course).

grizzly1911

Really2 wrote: »

I am not sure how you could justify that though if a degree was required it would some how point to a degree is worth more in the public sector than the private sector. (EG the jobs are there to support the need of qualification)

Or that jobs, don't necessarily need a qualification but require one to get you the interview.

So many jobs these days state degree level education required. Whilst it doesn't mean that you would not get the job without one, it is suggesting if you do and tick the criteria it may be an influencing factor.

I am not trying to justify higher wages in the public sector because they have degrees.

jamesd

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

Maybe that supports the fact that the public sector are more highly paid.

Public sector employees of the same education level are generally better paid than equivalent private sector employees. lemonjelly was just repeating an outdated claim.

Gorgeous_George wrote: »

Cameron will not get away with doing to relatively low paid, loyal staff what Thatcher did to the miners. This will be the summer of our discontent.

I'd rather not see a repeat of that disaster for the employees. It's unpleasant enough without going on strike for a year, then going back to work to watch your industry being decimated many times over the following years.