Railway Station Parking Ticket

Stigy

vax2002 wrote: »

As far as i know a railway byelaw ticket can not be issued by anyone else other than a Transport police officer or BTP community support officer and certainly not by a private company.
who issued the ticket, it needs a name and officer number.
Hence why they issue them to fair dodgers they usually have a BTP officer with them because you do not have to contract with a member of staff or give them any details, nor can they detain you.
Look at the ticket for an officer number.

Actually I think you'll find that any railway staff can enforce byelaws, therefore, it's no different to issuing byelaw parking tickets. BTP don't carry parking Penalty Notices with them, and it would have to be TOC specific, as opposed to a Police specific issuing. I don't know what you're refering to in the final part, but assuming it's a Penalty Fare, then Police DON'T have to be present, rail staff alone CAN demand a name and address (and refusal allows detention under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889, and potentially arrest when Police arrive) and PFs are not for fare dodgers, they're for Byelaw revenue offences.

Okay, now for this case. As Livingthedream and others quite rightly say, genuine Byelaw tickets are quite rare. A lot of PPCs use the Byelaw wording on their bits of paper as a scare mongering tactic, although it would seem that in this case, East Coast are themselves (not a PPC) issuing PCNs, and using the same appeals process as they have for Penalty Fare Notices (RPSS), and if they remain ignored, then the initial notice will be cancelled, and the original Byelaw will be prosecuted at the Mags Court (14). Remember also, that Byelaw 14 makes the owner liable, and not the driver at the time of the offence.

vax2002

Stigy wrote: »

Actually I think you'll find that any railway staff can enforce byelaws,

so Even a cleaner can whip out a book and write penalties ?
Dont think so.
Parking without payment may well be against railway bylaw, but it is whether the ticket has been issued for such that matters here.
Any penalty notice must be compliant and contain certain information on the same bit of paper and not outside of a a boxed area.
it must state the Offence, the name of the officer enforcing the offence.
my suspicions are that this is a Private Ticket issued by a private rail company personally I would take a punt and ignore it and if the Mags court send a summons, well worry about it then.

Stigy

vax2002 wrote: »

so Even a cleaner can whip out a book and write penalties ?
Dont think so.
Parking without payment may well be against railway bylaw, but it is whether the ticket has been issued for such that matters here.
Any penalty notice must be compliant and contain certain information on the same bit of paper and not outside of a a boxed area.
it must state the Offence, the name of the officer enforcing the offence.
my suspicions are that this is a Private Ticket issued by a private rail company personally I would take a punt and ignore it and if the Mags court send a summons, well worry about it then.

I think you'll find that I said "any Railway staff can enforce byelaws" which they can. Even the cleaner.

Having said that, any railway staff would also be able to issue a PCN as long as the company is happy with them doing so, and they know what they're doing. Look at it another way, any staff (even the nasty cleaner!) can report people for breach of byelaws, which can go to Magistrates' Court via the TOC's Prosecutions Department, it just comes down to the feasability of the cleaner or similar doing so, as they wont have received training in report writing etc. That being the case, do you not think a report (MG11), outweighs a PCN in as far as severity goes? You stated that as far as you knew, only BTP can issue Byelaw tickets, and rail staff have to have police with them when issuing PFNs, or at least that's what you insinuated. Again, not true.

I would urge Pooroldsimon NOT to simply ignore, without first either showing us a copy of the notice, or at least investigating further! Remember also, as I said earlier, that the liability rests with the owner in respt of Byelaw 14, and not the driver (if different obviously).

Livingthedream

vax2002 wrote: »

so Even a cleaner can whip out a book and write penalties ?
Dont think so.

Railway bylaws can be enforced by any “authorised person”

“authorised person” means:
(i) a person acting in the course of his duties who:
(a) is an employee or agent of an Operator, or
(b) any other person authorised by an Operator, or
(ii) any constable, acting in the execution of his duties upon or in connection with the railway;

Edit: late again, damn you Stigy and your fast keyboard typing skills

Stigy

Livingthedream wrote: »

Railway bylaws can be enforced by any “authorised person”

“authorised person” means:
(i) a person acting in the course of his duties who:
(a) is an employee or agent of an Operator, or
(b) any other person authorised by an Operator, or
(ii) any constable, acting in the execution of his duties upon or in connection with the railway;

Edit: late again, damn you Stigy and your fast keyboard typing skills

Comes with typing all those MG11s...:beer:

geordieracer

..........................

vax2002

As i said I would have a punt at it, just for the benefit of everyone else who gets one, If you do get summonsed to Mags court, they are not going to chop your hands off for parking in the wrong place.
If its a bluff and PPC issued to look like a PCN then at least everybody knows, which at present they dont.

Stigy

vax2002 wrote: »

As i said I would have a punt at it, just for the benefit of everyone else who gets one, If you do get summonsed to Mags court, they are not going to chop your hands off for parking in the wrong place.
If its a bluff and PPC issued to look like a PCN then at least everybody knows, which at present they dont.

Indeed they'll not chop of his hands, but if convicted he'll receive a fine, plus incur costs etc, also receive a Criminal Record. Not the most severe of offences, but it can effect different people in different ways.

vax2002

Stigy wrote: »

Indeed they'll not chop of his hands, but if convicted he'll receive a fine, plus incur costs etc, also receive a Criminal Record. Not the most severe of offences, but it can effect different people in different ways.

"If"
Worth a punt in my book.
My senses say its a bullsh£t PPC from a private train company who lease the station.

Its up to the OP what they do but I certainly know what I would do.

geordieracer

vax2002 wrote: »

"If"
Worth a punt in my book.
My senses say its a bullsh£t PPC from a private train company who lease the station.

Its up to the OP what they do but I certainly know what I would do.

They dont 'lease' the station nor the station car parks. They are employed on behalf of the TOCs and whilst most wont ever prosecute under the byelaws except in extreme circumstances then you have to be carefull.