structural engineers report

sammy66

our argument

If the surveyor is not competent to comment on structural matters and so requires an engineers report, then he is also not competent to comment on , or interpret the engineers findings and recommendations. He must accept the engineers conclusions

No-one can ever say that a building will never ever move. But if the engineer is saying that future movement is unlikely, or if he is saying that certain work will make future movement unlikely, and that work is carried out, then the surveyor must accept that future movement is unlikely.

Broker will ask the surveyor who to lodge a complaint with in his practice or who/if a more senior partner is available to get a different opinion. Asking who his insurers are may get his attention...

sammy66

Broker spoke with surveyor and surveyor advised him he told lender after reading SE report that although he cannot state catagorically that no further movement (as no one can) will take place it is highly unlikely that the property will suffer from further movement.
So it looks like the lender who is being arsey and not the valuer. the broker is now threatening them with legal action!

If they still refuse to lend and we need to go to another lender we are going to have to disclose that we have been refused on a mortgage, and thats not going to look good

holly_hobby

kingstreet wrote: »

I've successfully requested a second valuation before today on behalf of a client. If you're going to have to pay for another one anyway - it might be worth a try!

The problem is that the underwriters have on file the orig survey - then if a second one is done and comes back ok (having taken account of the SEs comments) - which one do they accept, as the seed of doubt has been planted ...

I did suggest in my first post on this about seeking a 2nd survey opinion ... but from what has transpired since (and prev involved in first stage mge underwriting) I have a feeling that they may not consider any subsequent survey because of the seriousness of the issue (structural movement), and the fact that the 1st surveyor has made it clear that he isn't happy the movement is historical ... as I say the seed of doubt has been planted by the surveyors actions, and as an underwriter I wouldn't want to sign off lending iwith even the slighest doubt that this could be the case.

My suggestion would be to have the 1st surveryors decision over turned - it sounds like Sammy has an experienced broker who won't take it lying down, I would also suggest Sammy that your broker gets his/her lender rep involved in this (they have their area targets and every completion counts, so they do have a vested interest in getting mges through, and can sometimes (with evidence), influence an UW to change their opinion/decision).

You MAY have to consider another route here .. but I still have faith that your broker combined with their lender rep may overturn this - as the surveyors decision to reject the SEs comments and report really is a nonsense.

I tell you something else too ... if there really is no dice at the end of the day with this lender, I would really push for a refund (full or partial) of my SE fee. As this specialist report was requested specifically by the Surveyor (to obtain an experts view and opinion on whether the evidenced movement was historical or current) - who once received decided he didn't want to accept it, and to base his decision on his own assumptions, and if realilty as if the SEs comments (of no current movement) had never been made.

This really is a nonsense, as I say over the yrs (both as an adviser & head of a broker mortgage packaging desk) I have seen many valuations where SE reports (and other expert reports ) have been requested - and not once have I ever witnessed a surveyor over rule and/or dismiss as incorrect, the comments (and recommendations made by the expert whom they requested the services of.

Ooooh I bet your broker is HOPPIN' MAD .... I would be in orbit by now if it were me !!!

Anyway .. keep us informed we are all behind you with crossed fingers & toes !!

Holly

sammy66

Hi Holly, my broker is hopping mad, and yes I do want a refund on the SE report! When the broker spoke with the surveyor he also said to him he could not understand why they have declined it, he stated that future movement is highly unlikely but obviously cannot guarantee it, he said it was like a taxi driver taking someone on a journey and guaranteing there would be no crash!! On all his reports if he thinks no more movement is likely this is what he puts and it is always satisfactory. so it seems he agrees with the SE report?? It just seems like you say the lender has seen the word 'movement'. The broker will ring tomorrow demanding this be overuled and the mortage issued, stating he now has no faith in using them again for future clients and he does not want others to be treated this way. He wants to speak with someone 'high up' and if that fails then a refund on the SE report as his client has followed the instructions of the surveyor for no reason! I will keep you posted. Sorry Holly I forgot to ask the broker but would this have to be declared on another app for a different lender as they always ask ave you had a mortgage refused? I really appreciate all of your (and everybody elses's) help on this, you have kept me sane!

holly_hobby

This question tends to relate to applicants status i.e non-discosure of adverse credit, or just general dodgyness (is that a word ?!).

If the question is asked, you will have to obviously state yes, and I would include a full explanation that the decline was due to a conflict between the surveyors comments & the SEs report, and not as a result of any adverse data on you (disclosed or undisclosed) or any other area of your application.

However ... and assuming that this is a no-goer at the end of the day and you do move to another lender chosen by your broker & you ... get your broker to talk the case through with the lender rep (again I know .. Im not obsessed but they do help !!), or an underwriter of the lender BEFORE submission, and any more searches, fees etc are incurred.

Your broker will be given an AIP/DIP ref no, or even better the name of the UW who has agreed in principle, and to whom your broker will send the submitted app etc for their attention.

Again, if I was your broker I would involve the lender rep at every opportunity, and get them to do all the donkey work with this - the pay off for the rep is that the completion will go on their target figs, and I will try and give them (if suitable to the client of course) as much further business as I can.

I'll be on hot coals now waiting for the next instalment !!!

Hope this helps

Holly

kingstreet

... and if you do end up applying to a new lender, make sure everyone makes them fully aware they should not, under any circumstances, panel it to the same surveyor. That really would be adding insult to injury. :eek:

sammy66

thanks holly, will def make sure everything is up front, the new application (if need be) will be in my partners name only with a prime lender, the mortgage works because of my default, but at least then i can get that satisfied. will keep you posted, many thanks again x

holly_hobby

kingstreet wrote: »

... and if you do end up applying to a new lender, make sure everyone makes them fully aware they should not, under any circumstances, panel it to the same surveyor. That really would be adding insult to injury. :eek:

Oh that did make me titter Kings !!!! :rotfl:

Thats the prob with asking for a 2nd survey with the same lender, there may only be one panel surveyor who covers the area - and he's well and truly mucked his own cart on this one !! :mad:

In fact if he appeared Sammy would probably chase down the path with her shovel !!

Holly

sammy66

kingstreet wrote: »

... and if you do end up applying to a new lender, make sure everyone makes them fully aware they should not, under any circumstances, panel it to the same surveyor. That really would be adding insult to injury. :eek:

thats what worries me, cos the lender who i think we will go with is the one the surveyor says he does a lot of surveys for!! can we refuse to use him if he gets instructed? we are not using them because he recs them it's because they offer the best deal and my partner fits the criteria.

holly_hobby

An idea would be for your broker to ask the lender for a list of the panel surveyors, and ask if you may instruct one yourself from the panel.

That way you know the lender will accept the survey (as they are already on the lenders panel), which means that you won't have double survey fees.

Still not gted that they won't come up with the same approach re the movement & SE report - but thats the chance you'll have to take if it comes to it.

Thats why your best bet is to get the original surveyors comments either overturned, or to have his judgement on this case called into question to such a degree, that the lender feels his assessment of the matter is unreliable - and they themselves request a 2nd valuers comments.

Hope this helps

Holly