Severn Trent Water: massive 'rebill'

neilbaldwin

Hello Everyone,

I was directed here by a friend who said I might be able to get some advice/help regarding a recent 'rebill' by Severn Trent Water.

Briefly, we moved house recently, sent STW a final meter reading, received a final bill (for about £30) and promptly paid it.

A week later we receive another 'final' bill, this time spanning the entire time we were at the previous property (6 years) totalling £1400!!!

I've spoke to Customer Services twice about this so far but I am no further with progress. From what I can gather, what they are claiming is that our account was never set up properly from when we moved into that house (6 years ago) and that we've not been paying for drainage. However, this is the first we have heard of it and we have paid regular water bills (and plenty of meter readings) over the years.

Obviously, they say I need to pay them £1400. The offered to let me pay it over 12 months which I said was an outrageous offer - essentially £300 per quarter for their mistake. My counter offer was to spread the payment over the period over which it should've been originally paid i.e. 6 years. Obviously they said 'No'.

My instinct is actually to tell them 'I'm not paying'. My issue with the whole thing is that a) we paid regular, meter-read bills, b) there has never been anything mentioned over the whole 6 years and c) we've already had a 'final' bill that I've already paid.

I said to one customer services rep: "What if I was a garage and you brought your car to me, I serviced it, you paid the bill, then 6 years later I sent you another bill for £1500 because there was something I forgot to bill you for - would you just accept that and pay it?"...

Would love some advice on where I stand legally with this?

Thanks,

Neil

Gothicfairy

I am afraid that legally they can backbill for 6 years...it is different to gas and electric where they only go back 12 months.

Clearly your account was not set up correctly which is not your fault but (looking at it from their point) you did not notice either.

You need NEED to write a letter to non standard change of occupier first..
You NEED to be polite as these people can help you and didn't make this mistake.

Tell them clearly when you moved in, moved out..meter readings etc..say that you paid all bills on time and as requested and you did not know there was a problem until you moved out.

What has happened is that Target has closed the account and when doing so it has then become clear that there was another account that should have been closed..which of course was never really opened.
Target is a C*** system and most of the staff hate it as well so it will not come as a shock that this has happened, trust me. It happens all the time.


You need to say that although you have never not paid your bills you feel this is unfair and what can be done to move it forward..Do not demand and do not get nasty..leave it at that and more then likely the non standard change of oc team will look into it and just go back one year or so..ie to 01.04 ....

~ If that does not happen come back and we can talk....I would need more details about who replied to you etc (use to work along side STW and this dept was one I did deal with)
if they come back with something else you might need to write a " Cross complaint letter " but do the above first as 9 times out of 10 that will sort it without any hassle

Remember to add your number to your letter as to comply with DG6 they will need to reply and a phone call will get it sorted much faster.

victor2

Can't help you legally I'm afraid, but don't see why you should pay it. They set up the contract for you, you made sure they had regular readings from the meter and paid as billed.
I would escalate the complaint to somebody more senior. Keep copious notes of any communication you have with them.
I'd keep it as civil as possible, but make it clear you are noting the names of people involved "so that you can inform Watchdog" and the likes!

neilbaldwin

Thanks for the replies.

@Gothicfairy: is there a department called "Non-Standard Change of Occupier" then? I've never heard of it before.

Gothicfairy

victor2 wrote: »

Can't help you legally I'm afraid, but don't see why you should pay it.because it is their bill..not saying they will have to pay it or not but that is why they should,..if you see what I mean They set up the contract not for water I am afraid for you, you made sure they had regular readings from the meter and paid as billed. Doesn't work that way for water, there is no contract. They are not like any of the other utilies legally.
I would escalate the complaint not at this stage as you need to go through the whole process, this is simple to sort out (see my post) and happens all the time..Only ever escalate once it has been dealt with in WRITING to the customer services/ right team as you then have no where else really to go to somebody more senior. Keep copious notes of any communication you have with them good idea.
I'd keep it as civil as possible, but make it clear you are noting the names of people involved "so that you can inform Watchdog" and the likes really will not make any difference and will only pee people off, they are legally able to do what they did and going to watchdog/ ofwat/ CCW will not make any difference at this stage.!

It is your choice what you do but I would take my advice ( of course cos I gave it...:rotfl:) as it is the best way forward at this stage.

Come back if that does not work and we can go from there but let the right team look into it and do what they need to do.
It might all be sorted with one letter and that would be better for everyone.

Gothicfairy

neilbaldwin wrote: »

Thanks for the replies.

@Gothicfairy: is there a department called "Non-Standard Change of Occupier" then? I've never heard of it before.

It is a back office dept that is based at Coventry and they deal with all DG6 non standard change of occupier (it is called APORTS in STW).
They can do things that the phone staff can't. You can't call them as you would customer services but they are there and they can and will get back to you.

Give them a try..you could email but make sure you keep a copy and give them reply details as they can not reply through email..That is the way their system is set up.

Cardew

victor2 wrote: »

Can't help you legally I'm afraid, but don't see why you should pay it. They set up the contract for you, you made sure they had regular readings from the meter and paid as billed.

It doesn't matter if any firm(not just water) have made a mistake in billing(either overcharged or undercharged) they can correct that bill going back 6 years.

In this case the OP has failed to check the bills were correct, although that is something many of us are guilty of with Utility bills.

If it was an overcharge, a refund would be due - or don't you see why they should pay it?

As said above, the OP should write a letter, not disputing the validity of the bill, but seeking a goodwill reduction.

neilbaldwin

Cardew wrote: »

It doesn't matter if any firm(not just water) have made a mistake in billing(either overcharged or undercharged) they can correct that bill going back 6 years.

In this case the OP has failed to check the bills were correct, although that is something many of us are guilty of with Utility bills.

If it was an overcharge, a refund would be due - or don't you see why they should pay it?

As said above, the OP should write a letter, not disputing the validity of the bill, but seeking a goodwill reduction.

Thanks

I know what you're saying regarding the bills but as we provided meter readings regularly and received bills quoting those meter readings, how is one realistically to know that there's a missing charge? Especially as the bill breakdowns seem almost designed to confuse

I've since discovered (since receiving this massive bill) that a water bill is 5 separate charges: 'Water Supply', 'Water Standing Charge', 'Used Water', 'Used Water Standing Charge' and 'Measured Drainage'. Does everyone know this and does everyone check their bills each month/quarter to ensure that the charges are correct?

Is it not reasonable to expect that if you provide a utility with meter readings that they will send you a correct bill? I could accept it more if the bill(s) were based on estimates but they absolutely were not.

If I'd know we were being under-charged I'd have used less water? Is there somewhere I can send the water back? I used it in mistake and no longer want it.

Gothicfairy

neilbaldwin wrote: »

Thanks

I know what you're saying regarding the bills but as we provided meter readings regularly and received bills quoting those meter readings, how is one realistically to know that there's a missing charge? Especially as the bill breakdowns seem almost designed to confuse I find the metered bills not that hard but it might be the many years I have had to deal with them

I've since discovered (since receiving this massive bill) that a water bill is 5 separate charges: 'Water Supply', 'Water Standing Charge', 'Used Water', 'Used Water Standing Charge' and 'Measured Drainage'. Does everyone know this they should and does everyone check their bills each month/quarter to ensure that the charges are correct again, they should? you get a bill for a service and you should treat it like anything else..check the readings, amounts etc

Is it not reasonable to expect that if you provide a utility with meter readings that they will send you a correct bill? not unreasonable no, but I am afraid that sometimes when SWD is billed with metered water/ used it can drop off and the agent who set up the account did not search through the whole of the address. Which is easy to do when the poor sods are given a handling time of 6 ish minutes per call or they end up either on a improvement plan or lossing money I could accept it more if the bill(s) were based on estimates but they absolutely were not.

If I'd know we were being under-charged I'd have used less water? Is there somewhere I can send the water back? I used it in mistake and no longer want it. I would have thought that by now you have already given it back...........tee hee

I do feel sorry for the customer service phone staff though, such hard handling times, and long hours, weird shifts and really poor management etc.

Someone got it wrong and if given the chance it is more then likely it will be fixed.

But as I said , be nice and you might just get what you want.

Cardew

neilbaldwin wrote: »

Thanks


Is it not reasonable to expect that if you provide a utility with meter readings that they will send you a correct bill? I could accept it more if the bill(s) were based on estimates but they absolutely were not.

Agreed, and it is their failure to bill you correctly that would be the grounds for a goodwill reduction.

That is why it was suggested that you write a polite letter. These matters are often up to the discretion of managers at the Utility company.

If they still won't budge, you can see if the Consumer Council for Water can help.

Gothicfairy

This sort of issue would be down to the staff members of the team dealing with it. They have training and from there are left in some ways to make their own views etc.
They are more then able to sort this issue out without asking a manager ( it is within their limits etc) and that is a big reason for being nice and polite.

If the non standard change of occ team will not help, go through the complaints process with STW before going to the CCW as the CCW will only refer you back until that has been done and to be honest a letter from the CCW is no more likely to get what you want then your letter.
There is no legal grounds for a reduction of this bill but there could be a good will one (as Cardew has already stated )and the non standard team are more then likely to apply that rather then have to deal with it all or having the cross complaint team offer the reduction after they said no (which happens a lot as well)