Suspended from work, and I'm innocent.

Errata

Booie wrote: »

I'm sorry I never replied, but thankyou, my son got onto that link straight away and has spent the night researching.
He is sitting now writing a letter to his employer asking all the points SarEl mentioned.
He told me just now that the secretary was also in the club on Sunday, and so he should be aware of his manager drinking.
But the secretary bought him several of them!!!!!!!!
Its not looking good is it! Lets hope the chairman who is also in the meeting on friday, is a tea-totaller.

If they are all drinking buddies of longstanding, and I suspect they are, there's a very good chance that they will all stick together, including the chairman.

patman99

Which is why the matter needs to be brought to the attention of the Local Licensing Officer.

Larry22

Just my tuppence worth!

1st of all I have worked in the licenced trade for 15 yrs (until being made redundant in 2007) both as a licensee in a public house & as a club steward for a british legion & wmc,
In all these positions it was a no no for any staff to drink on duty, I take it the steward was on duty, I really can't believe that the management (committee) allow this where cash transactions/reconciliation is involved!
Again in all these positions all cctv was kept for a minimum of 31 days, in the days of vcr it was 1 tape per day ( they were special recorders for 24 hr recording) nowadays it is a dvr recorded onto a pc harddrive.
Op this may not help your son but I wanted to post because I'm absolutely appalled at the way he has been treated by a very unprofessional establishment.
Good luck & keep us posted on any outcome.
PS I have been dragged before these committee's before, they are not professional & with the exception of the steward are voted into their positions.

Booie_2

Larry22 wrote: »

Just my tuppence worth!

1st of all I have worked in the licenced trade for 15 yrs (until being made redundant in 2007) both as a licensee in a public house & as a club steward for a british legion & wmc,
In all these positions it was a no no for any staff to drink on duty, I take it the steward was on duty, I really can't believe that the management (committee) allow this where cash transactions/reconciliation is involved!
Again in all these positions all cctv was kept for a minimum of 31 days, in the days of vcr it was 1 tape per day ( they were special recorders for 24 hr recording) nowadays it is a dvr recorded onto a pc harddrive.
Op this may not help your son but I wanted to post because I'm absolutely appalled at the way he has been treated by a very unprofessional establishment.
Good luck & keep us posted on any outcome.
PS I have been dragged before these committee's before, they are not professional & with the exception of the steward are voted into their positions.

Thankyou Larry, Actually it does, we tried looking for what the lawsays about staff drinking, and all we could find were questions others has asked, which were answered with results like....
Its not against the law to let them drink, but not advisable to let them drink, as drinking impairs decisions.
or
No law to say that staff cant drink, but it cant be good for health and safety.
Does anyone know of any sites where I can find information about this, As the drinking, and other related incidents pertaining to the boss' outburst surrounding being drunk whilst on duty and in the bar will more than likely come up and it would be good to have some written proof if it does.

Booie_2

patman99 wrote: »

Which is why the matter needs to be brought to the attention of the Local Licensing Officer.

I'm sure this will be just a matter of time.

Booie_2

Errata wrote: »

If they are all drinking buddies of longstanding, and I suspect they are, there's a very good chance that they will all stick together, including the chairman.

Yeah, its a pretty rubbish situation isn't it.
Lets hope tho that with the secretary only being voted in 3 weeks ago, that he is dedicated to the role he has taken on and will play it fairly.

Booie_2

no-oneknowsme wrote: »

Op , I have just finished reading the entire thread.

Please , take the advice of SarEL on board and your Son will not go far wrong. SarEL's advice is spot on.

Good luck to your Son in his disciplinary and please up-date the thread with any developments.

Thankyou, I do hope your not giving me sympathy, I got the impression that human idiosynchrosies like discussions, little rants and compassion were frowned upon.. lol.

I will definately update, and let you all know what is going on, I've been taken aback by the support we have recieved here, and also the fab advice. Thankyou all so much.

Booie_2

minicooper272 wrote: »

What was the manager up to to get so rattled someone came back to find him??

I've asked for a bit of advice from my mum who was her union rep at work.

1. The manager was drunk at work and on duty - that's definitely something your son NEEDS to report. You have witnesses to say he had been drinking all day and you yourself know he was drunk on the phone. No manager should be drunk at work - not even in a pub. This is something we have been looking into, we're still trying to find some written evidence where is says that drinking is not allowed, but up till now, we can't find anything, accept that one is allowed to drink behind the bar with licensee's permissions. The manager is not the licensee, the secretary is.

2.There are no grounds to suspend your son based on a drunk guys speculation. With no evidence that your son was doing anything wrong, he wasn't caught with his hand in the cookie jar... He's been suspended unfairly I think we all feel this way, it just sounds so blooming pathetic doesn't it, that accusations like this can be thrown willy nilly when he is a trustee, a key holder! however, the employment law states he doesn't need to be caught, just that if there is reasonable doubt, that is good enough. We will be mentioning how his boss was drunk too, and how drinking impairs and escalates problems that aren't even there.

3. He can claim a grievance against his boss for the abusive phone calls. That was completely out of order and he has you to verify everything that was said (though he should have probably recorded the calls) It appears that even if we had recorded telephone conversations, we couldn't use them. I think maybe a grievance proceedure is in order, but as said earlier on, usually its only guilty people who throw back counter accusations. One step at a time I think, but the drinking and offensive language will be mentioned and logged in the disciplinary.

Whatever else, when he attends any meetings with them, he should ensure he is accompanied and should aim to have someone take notes or record the conversation (in case it comes to unfair dismissal). Yeah, a very good friend of mine is going in with him, notes will be taken.

Your son is definitely not in the wrong here but he may find returning to work will be too awkward. I would still encourage him to clear his name though before moving on - he does not want to have this hanging over him.

this is why he is so determined to find out his rights and the laws surrounding this, I've done loads, but he has done 3 times as much, and I've never seen him do so much researching, (shame he never had this much passion at school huh, lol.) He had a teenage rebellious stage, but one thing he's never been, is a thief. When he was 7, he stole a £1 out of my avon money, he went to NAAFI and bought sweets, friend saw him, told me, I saw £1 missing, and I phoned her husband at work, an MOD Police officer, he came arrested my son, and locked him in guardroom cell for 15 minutes....cruel?? a little, but tough love works on certain kids, it certainly done the trick, I know that, as he is honest as day as long.

Thankyou so much, I appreciate that you took the time out and asked your mum, its really done my heart good hearing from so many wonderful people.

Sambucus_Nigra

Booie - call the HSE and ask for their advice on alcohol in the workplace; particularly when the workplace serves alcohol and the boss is the one that drinks and encourages drinking...http://www.hse.gov.uk/contact/ask.htm

unsure

I think there are a few things to consider:

1. This appears to be a workplace where there is a boozing culture and where unfair/abusive treatment of staff occurs(from what you've said about steward's reaction to your son not wanting to drink). If your son is trying to get healthy and stay off the booze is it really the place he wants to be working? Sometimes such situations give us the chance/need to make a move we know we should be making in our own long term interests. Obviously he doesn't want a stain on his character, or to be treated unjustly, but leaving might prove a blessing in disguise as it doesn't sound a great place to work.

2. On the facts of the case: It could easily be construed as suspicious that your son returned, entered the premises and that his apparent reason for doing so (forgot his tips) proved to be inaccurate/untrue. In a cash business employers do need to have a high level of trust in employees. it is not unreasonable of them to be suspicious at such unexpected behaviour.
Set agaisnt that: he is presumablyof previous good character in this job over the last three years. Why, if he was intending to steal, would he involve you, a potential witness in the process when he mnight have accomplished it more easily alone ? Why would he return immediately when he might still run into somebody, rather than wait, say an hour, when he knows by then others will be off boozing and a robbery would be more easily carried out? It could be argued that his actions are those of an entirely innocent man with nothing to hide or fear. I think you just have to make your case as best you can.

3. All of Sar El's advice seems sensible as does your intention of having a friend present who knows the ropes. I would try to think what might be the bottom line on the various possible outcomes - that might help to shape your decision making.
Does your son, who wants to get fit and healthy, really want to return to work at a place with a boozing culture, erratic and abusive boss and where he may no longer be trusted or included (from your comments about previous treatment)?
Might an agreement to leave with, if possible, a period of notice and an agreement that he would get a reasonable reference based on three years good service, serve his long term interests better?
As has been said the disaciplinary hearing may well be a kangaroo court-- but suppose he wins and returns to work how does he expect things to be? How will his boss react and will the situation be tenable and satisfactory for your son long term?
If he wants to fight it all the way, he'll need good advice and representation (Citizen's advice might be a start) and it may be a very difficult, draining and even coslty process swith no certainty of a successful outcome. Is it worth it?

I'm not trying to discourage you from whatever course you choose to take, merely to point out what lies beyond the immediate issue, and to help you decide what's best to do over all...which only you and your son can decide. Good Luck