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Suspended from work, and I'm innocent.
Booie_2
Posts: 35 Forumite
This is a messy situation, but i'll try and make it short, please give any advice for next step.
This is for my 24 year old son.
He works in a social bar, and is 2nd assistant and key holder, his boss is the manager, and the managers boss is the secretary of the commitee.
Yesterday he worked his contracted shift, which finishes at 6, all members of staff including the manager go to the local pub once closed and has a drink together, however, due to the amount consumed a few weeks previous, my son had decided not to go, So i arrived to pick him up from work, I arrived at 5.50pm, and saw some bar staff, a few regulars and the managers wife, outside the main door, quite drunk, waiting for other customers to join the 'party'.
My son then appeared at the side door, at just before 6, jumped in car, and said, get me out of here, I've had so much grief from manager for not going to pub.
We drove up the road, and my son said, he'd forgotten his tips and that he needed them as pay day isn't till tomorrow and he had nothing but them. So asked me to turn back, as his Manager hadn't left yet.
We turned the car round and I pulled into car park, and saw that it was just 6pm.
My son went to side door, (where i was parked next to) and saw lights were still on, he tried door, and it was locked, so opened it with key, his boss was there, he said, hi, I just need my tips, his boss said fine, he went to tip jar, and saw it empty, and felt around trouser pocket, and saw that he'd put them in trouser pocket and not jacket pocket as usual, felt a bit of tool, and said, oh hold on,, there in my trouser pocket, sorry, to which his boss replied, Your taking the effing p***, my son walked out of side door and his boss fully slammed door behind him.
My son got in the car, and was shocked at how bad tempered his boss had been and asked if I thought he had taken the p***, I didn't think so, it had literally been 2 mins since we left carpark before returning.
Half hour later, my son recieved a call from his manager, he put it on speaker phone and his boss was screaming at him, (his boss had been drinking all day and was under the influence of at least 4 pints, as my son had poured them, but knows that other members of staff had poured some too) The language was awful, he called my son names, tw**, wa****, bas****, loads of effing too, and then said, that my son was coming back to rob the place.
My son argued the fact that it had been 2 mins, and he'd checked his coat pocket, as that is where he usually puts them, not in his trouser pocket with keys. That he knew his boss was still there, as lights were on, His boss was having none of it, continued to say he had come back to rob the place!
4 hours later, at 10.30pm, my son is still worried, he knew his boss would be even drunker, and talking to members of staff and the committee and so my son contacted the secretary, as he wanted to put his side across as his managers was ludicrous, he wanted to be heard, so he called the secretary, and spoke to him, secretary played devils advocate, didn't really say anything, just that he has heard nothing about it, only that my sons boss had arranged a meeting with him for the morning, (which was this morning)
Five minutes after talking to the secretary, his boss calls my son again, screaming at him again, calling him names, how he thought they were friends, the told him he was suspended! and hung up, my son never had a chance to say anything. By this time my son was angry, so he called back, the boss answered, My son asked, think about it, do you really think I'd come back to rob ya, when I knew you were there, that recordable cameras are on the back door, and knowing that I love this job, I'm 2nd assistant, I wouldn't do something like that, check the cameras, it'll show i checked door, etc, His boss then shouted back, that he shouldn't have opened the door, my son said, i saw lights on and heard you in there! My mum was in car, I can't believe you'd think I'd theive from you, boss then said, not money i dont, but a bottle of vodka. his boss then said, Well you wanted to get home dint you, didnt want to come out drinking with us, you wanted to go out and get drunk with your mother, (reality was, we had corned beef hash and cheesecake, I dont drink coz of my medication) His boss then hung up again.
I honestly thought it would blow over, that in the morning (today) apologies would come, and altho it was too late for my son to regain respect for his boss, that his name would be cleared against such an awful thing as theft. But......he recieved phone call from secretary this morning, saying he was suspended, and a disciplinary will happen on friday.
What should my son do.? Please help, we're both really upset by this, but my son is heartbroken that his boss could think this. after 3 years of dedicated loyal service.
This is for my 24 year old son.
He works in a social bar, and is 2nd assistant and key holder, his boss is the manager, and the managers boss is the secretary of the commitee.
Yesterday he worked his contracted shift, which finishes at 6, all members of staff including the manager go to the local pub once closed and has a drink together, however, due to the amount consumed a few weeks previous, my son had decided not to go, So i arrived to pick him up from work, I arrived at 5.50pm, and saw some bar staff, a few regulars and the managers wife, outside the main door, quite drunk, waiting for other customers to join the 'party'.
My son then appeared at the side door, at just before 6, jumped in car, and said, get me out of here, I've had so much grief from manager for not going to pub.
We drove up the road, and my son said, he'd forgotten his tips and that he needed them as pay day isn't till tomorrow and he had nothing but them. So asked me to turn back, as his Manager hadn't left yet.
We turned the car round and I pulled into car park, and saw that it was just 6pm.
My son went to side door, (where i was parked next to) and saw lights were still on, he tried door, and it was locked, so opened it with key, his boss was there, he said, hi, I just need my tips, his boss said fine, he went to tip jar, and saw it empty, and felt around trouser pocket, and saw that he'd put them in trouser pocket and not jacket pocket as usual, felt a bit of tool, and said, oh hold on,, there in my trouser pocket, sorry, to which his boss replied, Your taking the effing p***, my son walked out of side door and his boss fully slammed door behind him.
My son got in the car, and was shocked at how bad tempered his boss had been and asked if I thought he had taken the p***, I didn't think so, it had literally been 2 mins since we left carpark before returning.
Half hour later, my son recieved a call from his manager, he put it on speaker phone and his boss was screaming at him, (his boss had been drinking all day and was under the influence of at least 4 pints, as my son had poured them, but knows that other members of staff had poured some too) The language was awful, he called my son names, tw**, wa****, bas****, loads of effing too, and then said, that my son was coming back to rob the place.
My son argued the fact that it had been 2 mins, and he'd checked his coat pocket, as that is where he usually puts them, not in his trouser pocket with keys. That he knew his boss was still there, as lights were on, His boss was having none of it, continued to say he had come back to rob the place!
4 hours later, at 10.30pm, my son is still worried, he knew his boss would be even drunker, and talking to members of staff and the committee and so my son contacted the secretary, as he wanted to put his side across as his managers was ludicrous, he wanted to be heard, so he called the secretary, and spoke to him, secretary played devils advocate, didn't really say anything, just that he has heard nothing about it, only that my sons boss had arranged a meeting with him for the morning, (which was this morning)
Five minutes after talking to the secretary, his boss calls my son again, screaming at him again, calling him names, how he thought they were friends, the told him he was suspended! and hung up, my son never had a chance to say anything. By this time my son was angry, so he called back, the boss answered, My son asked, think about it, do you really think I'd come back to rob ya, when I knew you were there, that recordable cameras are on the back door, and knowing that I love this job, I'm 2nd assistant, I wouldn't do something like that, check the cameras, it'll show i checked door, etc, His boss then shouted back, that he shouldn't have opened the door, my son said, i saw lights on and heard you in there! My mum was in car, I can't believe you'd think I'd theive from you, boss then said, not money i dont, but a bottle of vodka. his boss then said, Well you wanted to get home dint you, didnt want to come out drinking with us, you wanted to go out and get drunk with your mother, (reality was, we had corned beef hash and cheesecake, I dont drink coz of my medication) His boss then hung up again.
I honestly thought it would blow over, that in the morning (today) apologies would come, and altho it was too late for my son to regain respect for his boss, that his name would be cleared against such an awful thing as theft. But......he recieved phone call from secretary this morning, saying he was suspended, and a disciplinary will happen on friday.
What should my son do.? Please help, we're both really upset by this, but my son is heartbroken that his boss could think this. after 3 years of dedicated loyal service.
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Comments
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Tell whoever heads the disciplinary meeting that the boss was as drunk as a fiddlers b1tch. Whatever happens, please try and teach your son the pointlessness of arguing with drunks..................
....I'm smiling because I have no idea what's going on ...:)0 -
I didn't want to read and run, so sorry for your son that he finds himself in such an unjust situation. Sending hugs. I'm sure lots of knowledgeable peeps will be along to offer advice soon.
In the meantime, remain calm, always tell the truth and don't be pushed into admitting something you didn't do.
I know nothing about it, but isn't a completely false allegation slander? Could this be pursued?:beer:0 -
You might think this is easy to say, and I'm sorry your son is in this position, but could this be a blessing in disguise? Does he really want to work under such a foul-mouthed drunk? If my 3 years of loyal service were 'rewarded' in this way, I know what I would do!
On a practical level, the internet is a great resource to find out his rights - you could start here http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/index.htm
I suggest your son write down the facts, and stick to them so his boss can't trip him up - if your son is consistent with his 'story', and his boss has no proof, I can't see what he can do, except remove his keyholder rights (and make life uncomfortable at work....)
His emloyer will have to follow the correct procedure, or risk being sued for unfair dismissal (if it comes to that). Does his boss have any cause to think your son would steal? Is he allowed to enter alone without authority; has stuff been going missing in the past? Not suggesting any wrong doing on your son's part but the boss just be suspicious of everyone! Hopefully, come Friday, his boss will have had time to think about things rationally!0 -
I am afraid that there is nothing that he can do but tell his side of the story. I don't suppose that you thought of recoding the telephone calls with his boss? Beacuse I am afraid that your word (and his) alone may be pretty useless. An employer does not have to show evidence of theft - only that they have reasonable belief that that was his intention, and to be honest, I can certainly see an argument that would stand up in law as reasonable belief. It goes like this. Every other week your son goes drinking with the people he works with. This week he didn't, which was very unusual. He was then apprhended by the manager when he was entering the club. When asked what he was doing he claimed to be looking for his tips, but his tips were in his pocket already having been taken before he left. Your son claims that he didn't know he had already picked them up and had put them in the wrong pocket. The boss asked him to leave the premises (there was no swearing involved) and later suspended him by telephone on suspicion of theft. There was no swearing involved (unless he claims that it came from your son). The manager notified the employers and the suspension was confirmed by them in a further telephone conversation the next morning.
Now I am sure that this is not what happened But I am quite sure that this will be 85% of the story that the manager will tell. And unless you can prove that it is untrue, then you may well be in serious trouble. You are his mum - nobody is going to believe that you wouldn't say anything to protect your son, so anything that you witnessed has tainted value, unless you can prove it. So that is the starting point - what can you prove?
The employer must also follow a proper process, and in this case I am assuming that the allegation will be gross misconduct - so the employer must notify him of the fact and tell him that he may be dismissed as a result, and advise him of his right to be accompanied by a trades union official or work colleague (nobody else is allowed in law). But even if they get the process wrong on this, the chances of winning an unfair dismissal without any supporting evidence would be on the poor side - because as I said, the employer only has to determine, on the balance of probabilities, which version of the story they believe, and they may, in essence, choose whicjhever one they want, because without evidence they can claim "reasonable belief" and get away with it.
Your son should be asking for all evidence that will be used against him in advance of the hearing, and five clear days after he has received it to prepare his defence - they do not have to do this, but it may not help them if they don't. If there is anyone else who witnessed any of this and would be willing to give a statement, then your son needs to get the statements. But he must be very careful. Since he is suspended he must not talk to or contact any other staff without the employers permission - which they must reasonably give, although they can insist on colleagues being accompanied when he spekas to them.
I am sorry, but I can't really think of much more that would be helpful right now.0 -
Booie get Ds to write everything down asap as he remembers them. In a few months time he may well have forgotten by then.Mad Mum to 3 wonderful children, 2 foster kittens and 2 big fat cats that never made it to a new home!
Aiming to loose 56 pounds this year. Total to date 44.5 pounds 12.5 to go. Slimming World Rocks!0 -
I am afraid that there is nothing that he can do but tell his side of the story. I don't suppose that you thought of recoding the telephone calls with his boss? Beacuse I am afraid that your word (and his) alone may be pretty useless. An employer does not have to show evidence of theft - only that they have reasonable belief that that was his intention, and to be honest, I can certainly see an argument that would stand up in law as reasonable belief. It goes like this. Every other week your son goes drinking with the people he works with. This week he didn't, which was very unusual. He was then apprhended by the manager when he was entering the club. When asked what he was doing he claimed to be looking for his tips, but his tips were in his pocket already having been taken before he left. Your son claims that he didn't know he had already picked them up and had put them in the wrong pocket. The boss asked him to leave the premises (there was no swearing involved) and later suspended him by telephone on suspicion of theft. There was no swearing involved (unless he claims that it came from your son). The manager notified the employers and the suspension was confirmed by them in a further telephone conversation the next morning.
Now I am sure that this is not what happened But I am quite sure that this will be 85% of the story that the manager will tell. And unless you can prove that it is untrue, then you may well be in serious trouble. You are his mum - nobody is going to believe that you wouldn't say anything to protect your son, so anything that you witnessed has tainted value, unless you can prove it. So that is the starting point - what can you prove?
The employer must also follow a proper process, and in this case I am assuming that the allegation will be gross misconduct - so the employer must notify him of the fact and tell him that he may be dismissed as a result, and advise him of his right to be accompanied by a trades union official or work colleague (nobody else is allowed in law). But even if they get the process wrong on this, the chances of winning an unfair dismissal without any supporting evidence would be on the poor side - because as I said, the employer only has to determine, on the balance of probabilities, which version of the story they believe, and they may, in essence, choose whicjhever one they want, because without evidence they can claim "reasonable belief" and get away with it.
Your son should be asking for all evidence that will be used against him in advance of the hearing, and five clear days after he has received it to prepare his defence - they do not have to do this, but it may not help them if they don't. If there is anyone else who witnessed any of this and would be willing to give a statement, then your son needs to get the statements. But he must be very careful. Since he is suspended he must not talk to or contact any other staff without the employers permission - which they must reasonably give, although they can insist on colleagues being accompanied when he spekas to them.
I am sorry, but I can't really think of much more that would be helpful right now.
I understand what your saying, and agree what can be misconstrued as 'sus' on the managers side, However, all the evidence is on cctv, which is in the managers posession, it will clearly show that we were gone literally 2 minutes, at most 3 minutes, It will show my son knocking and trying door, looking thru glass and seeing and hearing his boss on the other side, he only put the key in, as he knew his manager was in there.
Unfortunately he did not record phone conversations.
I have just been down to his work to return keys, as secretary told my son on phone this morning to return them and collect his wages, I called first and told them I was going, they had wages prepared with treasurer and his suspension letter from the secretary, which says.
With reference to my telephone conversation with you earlier today, I confirm that your employment with the club is suspended until the outcome of a disciplinary hearing with myself and the chairman at 10am on Friday 3rd June 2011. The hearing will be in respect of your conduct of Sunday 29th May 2001 which is regarded as a serious breach of trust placed in you by the Steward.
At the Hearing, you have the opportunity to explain your actions and you have the right to be accompanied by a colleague or friend.
Can anyone tell me where we go from here, My son is happy to go back to work while looking for employment elsewhere, mainly due to fact he has done nothing wrong, and believes that by facing them, he is proving his innocence. He is (maybe was now) a 2nd assistant, who has been in training for well over 18months and is not being treated as such, he is expected to open up and close up when the 1st assistant is away, and handle monies and cashing up, even when the manager is not there.
Legally does he have a leg to stand on? as he really can't see a career opportunity now, as its not just their trust in him, but his trust in them.0 -
narabanekeater wrote: »Booie get Ds to write everything down asap as he remembers them. In a few months time he may well have forgotten by then.
Hiya,
Sorry i'm not good with abbreviations, what is Ds? my son has tried to write everything down, but it was so frantic from the manager, it just looks like a sweary mary screen play.0 -
DS means your son ( dear son).Nothing in it, nothing in it but a ribbon round it .....0
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It sounds as if they are just as likely to sack the manager at the meeting.0
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