LDK Group "Parking Charge" in underground key-fob access carpark

Coupon-mad

Whatdoiknow wrote: »

I would first suggest that what terms and conditions has the driver accepted for the use of the company car.

Like I have mentioned previously, in our car policy, that all drivers have to accept and sign for otherwise they are refused use of a company car, is that the designated driver even if they weren't driving at the time as spouses are allowed to drive the cars, are responsible for all parking charges whoever they are issued by.

I would add that if it is a PPC and they write to us as a company, I will tell them where to get off, but as all our cars are leased sometimes the lease company may just pay the charge and then by our agreement with the leasing company we are invoiced and have to pay, it is then at that time passed to the designated driver.

Come on, you know from coming on here - and from your final paragraph - that PPC fake PCNs are a scam. That car policy sucks so why defend it on here? (that's how it appears from your post anyway). What idiot wrote that car policy and why has your firm not had a word with the lease company and had it amended seeing as you know about this scam?

Coupon-mad

alex.h wrote: »

Thanks massively for all the replies - very helpful indeed! Will try and keep this thread updated with progress. Currently HR are saying she'll get it deducted and then she has to contest the ticket to get the money back... which doesn't seem right at all, and frankly takes the !!!!.
Will see what develops...[/QUOTE]




Why just meekly allow HR to call the shots? It's not a parking ticket. It is fake, your gf is being ripped off. HR are there for her benefit too (apparently!).

Be proactive, please do not wait and see what develops or she will be out of pocket due to their inability to spot a scam even when it is pointed out to them!

She should send HR an email straight away with the links I provided and copy in her union, REFUSING to pay and insisting that they cannot lawfully deduct an invoice from a private company which is only alleging a breach of contract against her, personally. An allegation which she denies and involves only her, not them.
An analogy: if your gf's next-door neighbour wrote to the company and said 'I want to claim £50 because gf parked your car reg xxxxxxx in front of my driveway, I happen to know you own the car so cough up' surely they would ignore it and think the neighbour was barking mad. This is a similar bogus claim - but dressed up to look like a PCN - they are all hopping about and thinking it is a real PCN, fooled simply by the look of it and the headed notepaper. Are they mad? Anyone could write a letter like that and it seems they would pay anyone!

It is nothing to do with the car, lease company, fleet manager or HR. Absolutely none of their business - spell it out!

Whatdoiknow

Sirdan wrote: »

Yes but responsible for means the driver is entitled to not pay and have their day in County Court !

1) The leasing company has no right to pay it ..if they do and then invoice your company who have agreed to pay them in turn ..it does not follow that you can pass that charge onto the driver...2)both the lease company and the employer are denying the driver their basic right to oppose the charge.
Worth bearing in mind most of these never get to court and almost all that do the Parking Company loses !
3) Why in those circumstances would a lease company or employer feel they should pay ..all they need to do is give the Private Parking Company the driver details and let the driver "be responsible" for it !!!

PS Would this same lease Company dare to pay a statutory PCN or FPN without allowing the driver to exercise their statutory right to go to PATAS or Magistrates Court ???? If they did that would your Company support them by paying the invoice they would subsequently issue and trying to recoup the monies from the designated driver ????

1) I suppose that depends on the terms and conditions of the lease hire.

2) By signing the terms of use of having a company car then surely the driver is signing this right away, however they would still have the right I assume to take whoever imposed the original penalty charge to court should they so wish. I should have added that our terms specifically state that any charges that the company has HAD to pay will be reclaimed by a deduction from salary, so in signing this the employee is agreeing to this. That is why the OP should check what the terms and conditions the driver signed for use of a comapny car.

3) As I stated previously, if a private parking company were to write to the employer after being passed our details by the leasing company then we would not even pass on our driver details, but if by chance the leasing company does pay then we as a company will pass on that charge to the driver, I would add that so far in the past couple of years we have had only two cases of a penalty charge, one where the driver dealt with it himself and another when the driver had already left the company so we didn't pass on any details.

I spoke to one of our lease providers regarding this some time ago and they have taken legal advice (whether right or wrong) that they should in fact pay private parking charges and these would be passed on to us. So unfortunately should they charge our company then that will have to be passed on to the driver. So far with this lease provider we have not actually had one.

With regard to fixed penalty notices they are the resposibility of the registered keeper, in our case the lease company. For the few that we have had in the first instance they are passed to the company who then pass this on to the driver, but there have been at least two cases where the driver did not appeal in time and in these cases the lease company ended up paying, so we were charged and we then deducted this from the driver.

Sirdan

I would add that so far in the past couple of years we have had only two cases of a penalty charge, one where the driver dealt with it himself and another when the driver had already left the company so we didn't pass on any details.

Don't you mean Parking Charge ..a Penalty Charge is wholly different.

With regard to fixed penalty notices they are the resposibility of the registered keeper,

No, the Registered keeper is only obliged to name the driver not to pay the FPN for any stated offence ..if they fail to name the driver then they may be prosecuted for a separate offence under RTA88 S172 which is not a fixed penalty offence.

Whatdoiknow

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Come on, you know from coming on here - and from your final paragraph - that PPC fake PCNs are a scam. That car policy sucks so why defend it on here? (that's how it appears from your post anyway). What idiot wrote that car policy and why has your firm not had a word with the lease company and had it amended seeing as you know about this scam?

I am not defending it, this car policy has been written for some time as far as I know. The point I was making is that we are in the hands of the leasing company. Whatever the rights and wrongs of it our company will not stand the charges that are imposed on one of our cars. As I have mentioned in another reply, whatever we say to the leasing company and I have told them these charges are a scam, if they are advised by their legal team to pay any of these charges then it is unfortunate that the driver will ultimately end up paying.

That is why I suggested that the OP should check what terms if any the driver has signed in accepting a company car. I am in no way suggesting these charges have any validity but like I said our company will not accept the charge so if it should unfortunately happen the driver will have to.:(

Like I have already said and have mentioned on here many times, I have successfully repelled Roxburghe and if the same should happen again I will continue to do so.;)

Whatdoiknow

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Come on, you know from coming on here - and from your final paragraph - that PPC fake PCNs are a scam. That car policy sucks so why defend it on here? (that's how it appears from your post anyway). What idiot wrote that car policy and why has your firm not had a word with the lease company and had it amended seeing as you know about this scam?

By the way, CM having just had a look on google and other company car policies I am sure you will find exactly the same conditions.:p

Like I said I am not defending it, just quoting it.

Coupon-mad

Whatdoiknow wrote: »

By the way, CM having just had a look on google and other company car policies I am sure you will find exactly the same conditions.:p

Like I said I am not defending it, just quoting it.

Really, where? We have seen lots of hire/lease cars t&cs where they talk about penalties, but rarely parking charges.

And in your own lease t&cs you say it just says they are 'the responsibility of the designated driver'. Well yes. How does that force the driver to pay the scam invoice? Do you actually deduct it from their wages even though you know it's a scam?

I am not saying your company should stand the charges. No-one should - and sorry but SHAME on your firm, in the full knowledge of this being a scam, for allowing this rip-off to continue at the expense of your staff (seeing as it must be your firm doing the wages deduction).

SodG24

Whatdoiknow wrote: »

That is why I suggested that the OP should check what terms if any the driver has signed in accepting a company car. I am in no way suggesting these charges have any validity but like I said our company will not accept the charge so if it should unfortunately happen the driver will have to.:(

Just out of interest then, what would your company do if a driver rasied a formal grievence after having the money deducted, or indeed, took it to a small claims court to recover the money ?

Your company is the customer of the lease company not the other way round so the lease company should be told where to shove their contract and go elsewhere - car leasing is a cut throat business at the moment and I'm sure many companies would be willing to re-write the PPC clause if they have one.

Coupon-mad

(off topic): How's your voice this morning, SodG24? My voice has gone and we have another home match tomorrow!

:T

Whatdoiknow

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Really, where? We have seen lots of hire/lease cars t&cs where they talk about penalties, but rarely parking charges.

And in your own lease t&cs you say it just says they are 'the responsibility of the designated driver'. Well yes. How does that force the driver to pay the scam invoice? Do you actually deduct it from their wages even though you know it's a scam?

I am not saying your company should stand the charges. No-one should - and sorry but SHAME on your firm, in the full knowledge of this being a scam, for allowing this rip-off to continue at the expense of your staff (seeing as it must be your firm doing the wages deduction).

CM I am not talking about lease/hire terms and conditions I am talking about internal company car policies which the employee has to sign up for before he is allocated a company car, the employee doesn't hire or lease the car.

As regards SodG24's comment unfortunately in the real world it isn't as easy as telling the lease company where to go, firstly all our cars are leased for four years so once the lease starts we are stuck with them unless we end the lease before the term ends and if he or anyone has any knowledge of car leasing they would know that early termination payments can be quite high and would certainly not be budgeted for, also if he expects our FD to re-write the terms and conditions of our multi-car lease agreements with our provider or move to another leasing company when it took nearly a year to move from a previous one on the basis of one of our drivers 'may' incur a parking charge then he isn't.

Like I keep saying if I can prevent one of our drivers incurring this charge before it is paid I will, unfortunately when or if it is paid by the leasing company then it is out of my hands.