LDK Group "Parking Charge" in underground key-fob access carpark

vax2002

PPc's have a well know list of fleet cars, they know the sequence of registrations and the office they are registered through which is almost unique to the fleet providers.
Upon seeing a fleet or hire car they know they have a guaranteed hit as the lease company will pay without defending and just deduct the money from the hirer.
This is the criminal end of the PPC game.
One that anyone who uses a hire car or lease car should be aware of.
They knew exactly what they were doing... trust me.

Whatdoiknow

Considering some of the advice being issued, has anyone ever taken a lease company or employer to court for illegal deduction of wages?

HO87

Whatdoiknow wrote: »

Considering some of the advice being issued, has anyone ever taken a lease company or employer to court for illegal deduction of wages?

Before you do anything else you need to obtain a copy of the lease company's terms and conditions. If they match the standard they will refer only fines applied for traffic offences and parking fines and may even refer to the police and councils.

As what you have is neither of those things then they have arguably applied a charge in breach of their own t's and c's. The most charitable interpretation of what you, and they, have or had is an "Invitation to Settle" and I will absolutely guarantee that that is not provided for in their t's and c's. In addition, they must know that as the "ticket" they had involved an alleged breach of contract then the only person that can ever be held liable for the breach was the driver of the vehicle at the time. One might interpret the lease company's actions as being at best negligent for failing to exercise the degree of care and diligence in administering their contracts.

There was a case in the last couple of weeks where a customer took on a lease/hire company on exactly these grounds and obtained a refund without the matter going to court.

As for your employer you should again check the statement of terms and conditions for your employment and any specific instructions issued to company car users. I'd suggest that once again these will refer to fines levied by the police, councils or the courts and, generally, will state that as the person responsible for the vehicle you must accept responsibility for them. It would be rare indeed for such t's and c's to empower an employer to recover any charges they chose to pay without ensuring that they had been properly applied in the first instance.

If you are in any doubt contact your union rep (if you have one) or ACAS (Advisory, Conciliation & Arbitration Service) on 08457 474747 (M-F 09.00 to 17.00, I think). Their advice is independent and reliable - Oh, and quicker than going to CAB).

Just because the lease company is a big concern doesn't mean that they are right or should be left to get away with it. If the experience here is anything to go by lease companies are invariably wrong when it comes to dealing with PPC's.

robredz

If it isn't council or police the lease company will be in breach if they pay and then charges the driver/lessee for an invoice that has no legal backing imho

Coupon-mad

alex.h wrote: »

So contact the lease company straight away informing them we are not willing to pay for this charge, and don't contact LDK Group/charge issuer?
Sorry, just want to be über clear!

Yes, this is an error for the fleet or lease company to swallow - and they should refund the previous unlawful deduction from wages too IMHO.

No point at all contacting the scam company who are now laughing all the way to the Bank!

I think read this thread from pepipoo, it explains in the example emails used - which were successful in getting a hire company to back down - why a lease/hire company have no business getting involved in an allegation of breach of contract (just because it is dressed up to mimic a 'parking ticket'). I suggest you adapt the wording used in those emails, to explain your own position and to show the lease company this is their silly mistake.

Back it up with this Fleet News article:

http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/2009/5/28/question-private-parking-fines-fleets-urged/30698/

...and with this Watchdog youtube clip which makes it clear that it is ONLY a matter for the driver to decide whether to igore the fake ticket:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAIcdi9niHA

HTH, do not pay but also arm yourself with the employment contract small print. Surely it ONLY covers fines/offences/penalties? This fake PCN is none of those and was never anything to do with the car or the fleet company or the lease company. Would the lease company really shell out for ANY headed notepaper 'begging letter' from ANY private company that mentioned one of their car reg numbers? Ask them that?!

It is very important to get this fully understood now, to cover you in the future in that job - this cannot be allowed to happen again. Please be really clear with HR over this matter. They will not understand it, I am 99% sure. Educate them on the huge difference between a penalty charge notice (real Council PCN) and a parking charge notice (fake).

SodG24

If the lease company don't play ball you could always quickly create an invoice on the PC from some imaginary PPC with a name strangely similar to your own ( which obviously has your address ). Charge say £180 for an alledged over park and hey presto - you'll probably get your money back

alex.h

Thanks massively for all the replies - very helpful indeed! Will try and keep this thread updated with progress. Currently HR are saying she'll get it deducted and then she has to contest the ticket to get the money back... which doesn't seem right at all, and frankly takes the !!!!.
Will see what develops...

Sirdan

alex.h wrote: »

Thanks massively for all the replies - very helpful indeed! Will try and keep this thread updated with progress. Currently HR are saying she'll get it deducted and then she has to contest the ticket to get the money back... which doesn't seem right at all, and frankly takes the !!!!.
Will see what develops...

I would be considering legal action against the employer at this point.

HR clearly do not understand how Private Tickets work.

As previously stated it is nobodies business but the driver, they can not pay it for you !!

More to the point unlike genuine statutory tickets you can not appeal.
Any appeal goes to the company that wants your money so it is wholly in their interests to reject your appeal out of hand .

The ONLY way to "contest" such a "ticket " is to not pay it ..and then IF they pursue to Court you get to defend it !

By paying it for you they have removed your basic right to contest in this way ...so you could thank them for their genorosity in paying ..but no way do you owe them (the company) the money ..it is their own stupid fault for paying what is effectively a "scam".

If the company insist on deducting ..I would suggest a Small Claim against them ..they have no right to pay it ..only the driver has liability not the Company !

I would be writing to HR laying out all these facts clearly ..then if they do deduct because they have made a mistake and paid it then you are well within your rights to claim against them as they are in the wrong.

Whatdoiknow

Sirdan wrote: »

I would be considering legal action against the employer at this point.

HR clearly do not understand how Private Tickets work.

As previously stated it is nobodies business but the driver, they can not pay it for you !!

More to the point unlike genuine statutory tickets you can not appeal.
Any appeal goes to the company that wants your money so it is wholly in their interests to reject your appeal out of hand .

The ONLY way to "contest" such a "ticket " is to not pay it ..and then IF they pursue to Court you get to defend it !

By paying it for you they have removed your basic right to contest in this way ...so you could thank them for their genorosity in paying ..but no way do you owe them (the company) the money ..it is their own stupid fault for paying what is effectively a "scam".

If the company insist on deducting ..I would suggest a Small Claim against them ..they have no right to pay it ..only the driver has liability not the Company !

I would be writing to HR laying out all these facts clearly ..then if they do deduct because they have made a mistake and paid it then you are well within your rights to claim against them as they are in the wrong.

I would first suggest that what terms and conditions has the driver accepted for the use of the company car.

Like I have mentioned previously, in our car policy, that all drivers have to accept and sign for otherwise they are refused use of a company car, is that the designated driver even if they weren't driving at the time as spouses are allowed to drive the cars, are responsible for all parking charges whoever they are issued by.

I would add that if it is a PPC and they write to us as a company, I will tell them where to get off, but as all our cars are leased sometimes the lease company may just pay the charge and then by our agreement with the leasing company we are invoiced and have to pay, it is then at that time passed to the designated driver.

Sirdan

Whatdoiknow wrote: »

I would first suggest that what terms and conditions has the driver accepted for the use of the company car.

Like I have mentioned previously, in our car policy, that all drivers have to accept and sign for otherwise they are refused use of a company car, is that the designated driver even if they weren't driving at the time as spouses are allowed to drive the cars, are responsible for all parking charges whoever they are issued by.

I would add that if it is a PPC and they write to us as a company, I will tell them where to get off, but as all our cars are leased sometimes the lease company may just pay the charge and then by our agreement with the leasing company we are invoiced and have to pay, it is then at that time passed to the designated driver.

Yes but responsible for means the driver is entitled to not pay and have their day in County Court !

The leasing company has no right to pay it ..if they do and then invoice your company who have agreed to pay them in turn ..it does not follow that you can pass that charge onto the driver...both the lease company and the employer are denying the driver their basic right to oppose the charge.
Worth bearing in mind most of these never get to court and almost all that do the Parking Company loses !
Why in those circumstances would a lease company or employer feel they should pay ..all they need to do is give the Private Parking Company the driver details and let the driver "be responsible" for it !!!

PS Would this same lease Company dare to pay a statutory PCN or FPN without allowing the driver to exercise their statutory right to go to PATAS or Magistrates Court ???? If they did that would your Company support them by paying the invoice they would subsequently issue and trying to recoup the monies from the designated driver ????