3 - charging for text delivery receipts

davehutch

Well at least it isn't even available on an iPhone so that's a benefit at last...almost a "design feature"

invisibleyousee

As someone else mentioned, Orange made a change to there T&C's two years ago - I was 2 months into an 18 month contract, and I cancelled the contract without penalty because of it. I stayed with Orange but moved onto a cheaper Sim Only.

Will certainly be interesting to see how 3 react - people are more savvy than they used to be and I imagine that more people now will try to use this to cancel their contracts.

They might try and say, you don't use delivery receipts - but by implementing this charge, they're affecting your future use so whether you have used them in the past is not important.

JudasPriest

Yes, you can leave your contract without penalty because of these changes(even if they now back down, they've broken the agreement anyway by not giving 30 days notice of a change detrimental to customers).

Everything you need to know from the terms and conditions - whilst use of the SMS delivery report service may have been optional, it is a part of the basic package and not an "additional service", as it wasn't a chargeable addition to your package.

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]"Glossary - Specific words and phrases that need further explanation."[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]"Additional Services: additional or supplemental services for which a charge is made in addition to the fixed periodic charges for your Package or Add-on(s) (if applicable)."[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]"Terms and conditions for using the Three network. All the things you need to know now that you're using our network and services."[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Section 4 - "Variations to your agreement or prices"[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]"4.1 We may vary any of the terms of your agreement, including our Packages, on the following basis:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif](a) any updated Packages and new terms will be available on our website and on request to Three Customer services;[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif](b) we will let you know at least one month in advance if we decide to:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif] (i) discontinue your Package; or[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif] (ii) make any variations to your agreement which are likely to be of detriment to you; or[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif] (iii) increase the fixed periodic charges for your Package (if applicable) by an amount which is more than the percentage increase in the Retail Prices Index Figure (or any future equivalent) in any twelve month period.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]You can end the agreement for such variations in Section 10.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Subject to the above, you will not be able to end the agreement if such variation or increase:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif] (i) is due to changes to the law, government regulation, or licence which affects us; or[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif] (ii) relates solely to Additional Services; or[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif] (iii) relates solely to Add-on(s) (if applicable to you). In such circumstances you will not be able to end your agreement but you will be able to cancel the Add-on(s) by giving us 30 days' written notice; and[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif](c) if you carry on using Three Services after the variation commences, you will be deemed to have accepted the variation."[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Section 10 - “Ending this agreement and Disconnection of Three services”[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]"10.1(d) Within one month of a detrimental variation to your agreement. You can end the agreement within one month of us telling you about a variation to your agreement(which includes your Package) which is likely to be of detriment to you. You must give notice to Three Customer Services within that month and your agreement will will finish at the end of that month once we receive your notice. (A Cancellation Fee will not be charged.)[/FONT]

Write to them, and give them until the 5th to sort you out - using your phone after billing is introduced is interpreted by Three as you agreeing to their new charges and the changes to your terms.

Doing this on the phone is bad - you want written evidence of where they stand, so both parties know exactly what has been said. Suggest using a signed-for postal service, and writing to both the customer services department(required under their T&Cs) and their head office, as it's more likely to speed things up.

bxm

I've had my unsatisfactory call back. They've basically offered to refund any charges I incur as a result of this change up to and including the 18th of June. Which is something, I suppose. At first they wanted me to call back on 18th of June to request the refund, I pointed out quite strenuously that I didn't find it acceptable that I should further inconvenience myself for their mistake. Grudgingly they agree to get it put on automatically. We'll see.

gjchester

JudasPriest wrote: »

Yes, you can leave your contract without penalty because of these changes(even if they now back down, they've broken the agreement anyway by not giving 30 days notice of a change detrimental to customers).

Probably not quite true. If you've never used the service then you'd be hard pushed to show it's to your detriment that a change is taking place to a service you have not used.

chattyuk

bxm wrote: »

I've had my unsatisfactory call back. They've basically offered to refund any charges I incur as a result of this change up to and including the 18th of June. Which is something, I suppose. At first they wanted me to call back on 18th of June to request the refund, I pointed out quite strenuously that I didn't find it acceptable that I should further inconvenience myself for their mistake. Grudgingly they agree to get it put on automatically. We'll see.

Why the 18th of June may I ask? Seems a random date.

miniyazz

bxm wrote: »

*snip*

---

So now I wait...

Here are the relevant T+C items for those who want to pursue this as well:

4. Variations to your agreement or prices
Pay Monthly Customers
4.1 We may vary any of the terms of your agreement, including our Price Plans, on the following basis:
(b) if you are a Pay Monthly Customer, we will let you know at least one month in advance if we decide to:
(ii) make any variations to your agreement which are likely to be of detriment to you

Unfortunately, what they have done is acknowledged that they should have given 30 days' notice, not that they are unable to change the pricing of text message delivery reports without risking section 10d cancellations.

I too have just come off the phone from 3, and their argument is that they are additional services, that they are not one of calls, texts, or data and therefore not one of the core services. I cannot find a definition or list of core services in my contract so this is hard to argue against.

As someone has explained, 'additional services' are defined in the contract, and text message delivery reports fairly loosely do not meet the criteria of Additional services: additional or supplemental services for which a charge is made in addition to the fixed periodic charges for your price plan or Add-on(s) (they may still meet the criteria if, for example, there has always been a charge but that charge has been 0p) so it may or may not be possible to argue against it being an additional service. I don't know; I'm not a lawyer.

If delivery reports cannot be excluded from being an additional service then this change would clearly meet the criteria listed in 4.1b(ii)(2) which excludes it from allowing customers to cancel their contract without penalty:

You can end the agreement for such variations as explained in Section 10 [a variation in your agreement likely to be of detriment to you]. Subject to the above, you will not be able to end the agreement if such variation or increase:

(ii) relates solely to Additional Services

So I am not particularly hopeful about the customer's legal position on this. I look forward to being proven wrong.

chattyuk wrote: »

Why the 18th of June may I ask? Seems a random date.

Assuming they notified him today, this is only 18 days of notification whereas a month may be taken to mean 30 days. They are providing 12 days more notice to bring the notification period up to 30 days.

mongoose2009

Hi i'm on 3PAY PAYG

i noticed my £10 dropping (its now £8.31) i only send txt i had 600 free

is this in force now?

JudasPriest

miniyazz wrote: »

I too have just come off the phone from 3, and their argument is that they are additional services, that they are not one of calls, texts, or data and therefore not one of the core services. I cannot find a definition or list of core services in my contract so this is hard to argue against.

I'm told, from someone who understands these things better than I, that technically this is very clear-cut. Whatever position(s) Three are trying to argue on the phone, it boils dows to this:-

1. "Additional Services" are clearly defined as a service above and beyond that sold to you as your package or talk-plan, and are purchased in addition to the above.

2. Whilst not specifically defined anywhere by Three, "Core Services"(their term) must therefore be assumed to be anything that came as a part of your package at the time of agreeing the contract.

SMS delivery reports don't show up on past bills at a zero-charged rate - and therefore can't be an additional service under Three's criteria. Never been billed, never been itemised. That's not an "Additional Service", and the scope of their terms and conditions allows the customer to leave the contract if changes are made that don't relate to an "Additional Service".

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm happy to chase this as far as I can. I've written to them today via recorded snail-mail, and indicated that I require the matter to be resolved by the 5th June 2011, as I cannot continue using their service without acknowledging my acceptance of the mentioned changes - which come into force on the 6th.

miniyazz

JudasPriest wrote: »

I'm told, from someone who understands these things better than I, that technically this is very clear-cut. Whatever position(s) Three are trying to argue on the phone, it boils dows to this:-

1. "Additional Services" are clearly defined as a service above and beyond that sold to you as your package or talk-plan, and are purchased in addition to the above.

2. Whilst not specifically defined anywhere by Three, "Core Services"(their term) must therefore be assumed to be anything that came as a part of your package at the time of agreeing the contract.

SMS delivery reports don't show up on past bills at a zero-charged rate - and therefore can't be an additional service under Three's criteria. Never been billed, never been itemised. That's not an "Additional Service", and the scope of their terms and conditions allows the customer to leave the contract if changes are made that don't relate to an "Additional Service".

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm happy to chase this as far as I can. I've written to them today via recorded snail-mail, and indicated that I require the matter to be resolved by the 5th June 2011, as I cannot continue using their service without acknowledging my acceptance of the mentioned changes - which come into force on the 6th.

I hope you meet with more success than them responding to you on the 5th informing you that it is an Additional Service and therefore you are not eligible for refund or section 10d cancellation. That would presumably leave you in the position of debating whether to take them to court or not, and considering whether you are able to use your phone in the meantime without being deemed to be accepting of their new policy.
I guess it depends how far you want to take it - certainly, I suspect they would defend their case as otherwise they will lose a substantial sum of money from either people leaving or, more likely, them granting a waiver to those already having a contract with them.

I'll be interested to hear how you get on, but currently I don't have the time to be launching action which will most likely take several months to resolve