Stolen phone abroad: CHARGES

Silk

wantmemoney wrote: »

some very interesting, considered and helpful comments no doubt.

Well there is another 'option'.
Customers who find themselves in this situation (and don't mind their credit rating being affected) can dispute these huge bills and put the ball in the Networks court.

You should seek advice on how to properly dispute a bill.

If the Network takes the customer to court to re-claim damages they claim they have suffered because one of their SIM's was stolen from that customer they may have to show they took reasonable steps to limit or prevent those damages.

To my knowledge not a single Network has taken a customer to court over one of these alleged 'debts'.

This article explains the international numbers on your bill and how your money is being shared with the criminals who stole your phone.

International Premium Rate Numbers(IPRN) being used to commit International Revenue Share Fraud (IRSF).
http://bswan.org/revenue_share_fraud.asp#.UWLCCKK-pcb

Why on earth have you copied and pasted this from the post you put on this thread yesterday #7 ?????????????????

wantmemoney

Silk wrote:

Why on earth have you copied and pasted this from the post you put on this thread yesterday #7 ?????????????????

to help people like this,,,why the hell are all you 'experts' telling people they are liable for these 'organised frauds'!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/consumertips/household-bills/10146634/My-1000-Vodafone-bill-for-a-lost-mobile.html

'A £1000 Vodafone bill when I lost my mobile'
28 6 13

One reader was told to foot the bill when fraudsters got hold of his Sim. took on the telecoms giant. When Jon Barrett lost his uninsured iPhone on holiday in Barcelona, he resigned himself to the cost of a new handset. What he didn't bank on was Vodafone billing him more than...

"We make it clear in our terms and conditions that the customer is responsible for all charges on a lost or stolen phone up to the point that he or she reports it to us."

A spokesman said: "We've looked again at Mr Barrett's case and it seems that, rather than a straightforward case of fraudulent usage, this could be part of an organised scam. On that basis, we've waived all the charges. We're sorry that we missed this initially, but it is an extremely rare occurrence."

bull !!!!

redux

There are some journalistic inaccuracies in that Telegraph article.

No network has a published tariff of £20 a minute for calls, and there is no explanation of how this might happen.

The journalist says that a call diversion on thiis person's phone ran up costs for other people, family and friends who were calling him.

This is simply wrong; that does not happen. It's a principle of phone systems all over.the world that a caller pays their tariff to the number called, not for any ccnditiins at the destination, such as call diversion or roaming. There could not have been any double charge, with these calls appearing on two parties' bills.

When a phone is reported lost or stolen, the network bars both the phone and the SIM card. This journalist alleges that the SIM can then still be used in another phone, which is entirely false, and fuels unwarranted paranoia by exaggerating the articlle's general tone of network sloppiness.

That journalist needs to improve her own standards.

wantmemoney

redux wrote:

There are some journalistic inaccuracies in that Telegraph article.

No network has a published tariff of £20 an hour for calls, and there is no explanation of how this might happen.
.....
....
That journalist needs to improve her own standards.

I think you meant £20 a minute?

the fraudsters use the SIM to make a conference call to several International Revenue Share Numbers at the same time.

the lines are £2.00/min for example

ten lines at £2.00/line = £20.00/min

the OP said

RLM wrote:

I recently had my phone stolen in Barcelona.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=43807308&postcount=4

It's obvious that I haven't made these call; according to my bill I have made 300 hours' worth of call in a 24-hour period!

redux

Sorry, I misthought/mistyped that and obviously did mean per minute.

I don't think conference calls would do it, but putting one on hold and calling another might add them up as you suggest.

However, I stick right behind the other points I made, especially the irresponsible alarm-causing falsehood that even after blocking a SIM can still make calls or be otherwise charged. This is not true at all. Even if call diverts were set up beforehand, blocking the SIM cancels the diverts and renders the SIM's phone number unobtainable.

A SIM bar is permanent. If someone merely mislays their phone, network blocking of the phone can be reversed if they find it again, but a replacement SIM will be needed

wantmemoney

redux wrote:

I don't think conference calls would do it

fraudsters are using conference call technology to maximise the amount of revenue that can be generated in the 'fraud window'.

here's another 'unusual' case.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2298750/Recruitment-worker-23-left-21-000-phone-thief-uses-stolen-mobile-premium-rate-spending-spree.html
25 March 2013

A recruitment worker whose phone was stolen while she was on holiday is facing a £21,000 bill.

Vodafone initially offered to reduce Miss Harris' bill by £1,500 as a ‘goodwill gesture’

The 23-year-old realised her phone had been taken when she arrived back in Britain after a trip to Barcelona.

Records show the thief had used the phone for several conference calls to premium rate international numbers from 7.52am on the day it was lost.

A spokesman said: ‘This is a very unusual case

‘However, this phone seems to have been used as part of a deliberate and organised crime which we will be investigating.
‘In this case, we will waive all of the charges raised by this fraud.

the Vodafone and the other Networks are knowingly profiting from organised criminal fraud.

MikeWhite

redux wrote: »

I don't think conference calls would do it, but putting one on hold and calling another might add them up as you suggest.

I don't either, I cannot find any way to have more than two calls on the go at once? The conference facilities I can find require users to each dial in. But you cannot have multiple calls all at once from one handset? Or can you? Might be useful for genuine purposes.....

Mike

wantmemoney

redux wrote:

I don't think conference calls would do it, but putting one on hold and calling another might add them up as you suggest.

@redux it appears you are correct

http://bswan.org/revenue_share_fraud.asp#.UdCEoDu-pca

Colin Yates has been working in the Telecom Fraud, Security and Investigation areas for 24 years and for the past 6 has held the position of Vodafone’s Group Head of Fraud Management and Investigations

'As mobile phone technology progressed, we gave them the smartphone with the ability to make 6 simultaneous calls by utilizing the conference call facility on the handset. On your mobile handset, you can call a number, put it on hold, then call a second number, put it on hold, etc. So if the bad guys make 6 calls at once off of one SIM card, at $5 a minute, that’s a pretty nice income.'