Stolen phone abroad: CHARGES

Techhead_2

redux wrote: »

Some networks do have protective measures such as a credit limit, and ought to and probably do also monitor against use in other types of device such as gateways.

no credit limit is going to help when an unsecured phone is used overseas and the billing information takes 48hours to reach the home network.

There aren't many solutions to this. Either people take responsibility by securing their phones and reporting them stolen immediately a theft occurs. Or all networks spend (a lot of) money integrating billing systems so that real time billing is possible. The other option is insurance.

chanz4

say the credit limit is £400 like one of myn, would you still be happy?

grumbler

Techhead wrote: »

...Or all networks spend (a lot of) money integrating billing systems so that real time billing is possible

Is the system not already in place for PAYG phones? If so, I don't see how it can cost a lot to integrate it to pay monthly, and the genuine reason why this has not been done so far is that the networks like the status quo and benefit from it.

wantmemoney

Techhead wrote:

no credit limit is going to help when an unsecured phone is used overseas and the billing information takes 48hours to reach the home network.

There aren't many solutions to this.

did you bother to read this...did anybody?

http://bswan.org/revenue_share_fraud.asp#.UWG--6K-pca

Then, about four years ago the GSM association approved a project to implement Near Real-Time Roaming Data Exchange (NRTRDE), allowing operators to get their hands on their international roaming call data much faster. That new process reduced that 24-36 hour time period between the fraud taking place and getting the roaming records at the home network. So NRTRDE was key to reducing the IRSF window to only 4 hours, which helped to take away many of the big fraud hits.

so

if a UK SIM is stolen from a UK Network and used abroad the International Revenue Share Fraud window is 4 hours,

if a UK SIM is stolen from a UK Network customer and used abroad the International Revenue Share Fraud window is apparently open ended.

Techhead_2

grumbler wrote: »

Is the system not already in place for PAYG phones? If so, I don't see how it can cost a lot to integrate it to pay monthly, and the genuine reason why this has not been done so far is that the networks like the status quo and benefit from it.

No, it's a completely different system. Which is not implemented in all countries.

Techhead_2

wantmemoney wrote: »

did you bother to read this...did anybody?

http://bswan.org/revenue_share_fraud.asp#.UWG--6K-pca

so

if a UK SIM is stolen from a UK Network and used abroad the International Revenue Share Fraud window is 4 hours,

if a UK SIM is stolen from a UK Network customer and used abroad the International Revenue Share Fraud window is apparently open ended.

I don't understand your point, there is a world of difference between approved, funded and implemented.

grumbler

Techhead wrote: »

No, it's a completely different system.

Who cares? What matters is that it exists and works.

Which is not implemented in all countries.

Fine, use it at least in the the countries where it is implemented.
I checked Orange for two random locations that I've never heard off - (St. Kitts and Nevis) and Anguilla - and they do provide PAYG roaming even there.

wantmemoney

Techhead wrote:

Colin_Yates wrote:

Then, about four years ago the GSM association approved a project to implement Near Real-Time Roaming Data Exchange (NRTRDE), allowing operators to get their hands on their international roaming call data much faster. That new process reduced that 24-36 hour time period between the fraud taking place and getting the roaming records at the home network. So NRTRDE was key to reducing the IRSF window to only 4 hours, which helped to take away many of the big fraud hits.

I don't understand your point, there is a world of difference between approved, funded and implemented.

It was implemented to protect the Networks from fraudulent bills being run up on new SIM's (SIMs with no billing history).

my point is why don't they use it to cut off customer SIM's (SIMs with a billing history) where fraudulent activity is noticed.

it was a quote from this person
Colin Yates has been working in the Telecom Fraud, Security and Investigation areas for 24 years and for the past 6 has held the position of Vodafone’s Group Head of Fraud Management and Investigations

here's another interesting quote.

The basic GSMA roaming agreement for example, which is bilaterally agreed between two operators says that the originating operator must pay for all calls originating from his network — whether it is fraud or not.

gjchester

chanz4 wrote: »

say the credit limit is £400 like one of myn, would you still be happy?

Fine until lets say your on holiday and a relative passes away, would you be happy when you are cut off? or the phone is given t a small child with a low limit (say £30) and then he can't call Mum & Dad as it's been spent somewhere else.

Credit limits are part of the answer but not the answer in itself.

wantmemoney wrote: »

did you bother to read this...did anybody?

Looked at it, it's a small vanity piece in a specialist trade online journal with a consultant who's business is fraud prevention. Makes sense to talk up the risks when you'll be offering your services to people to prevent fraud.

Quote form the BSWAN's about us page

Contributions by Software, Services, and Consulting Firm Professionals


The simplest and low-cost way to get coverage is through byline contributed articles and hiring Black Swan to help shape your story for the community. Please refer to our advertising page for more details.

It may be relatively correct but it doesn't change the fact it's an interview with a consultant touting for business and will talk up the risks.

wantmemoney

some very interesting, considered and helpful comments no doubt.

RLM wrote:

My first call to O2 was treated very insensitively and resulted in them telling me I had no option but to pay the outstanding balance on my current bill.

Well there is another 'option'.
Customers who find themselves in this situation (and don't mind their credit rating being affected) can dispute these huge bills and put the ball in the Networks court.

You should seek advice on how to properly dispute a bill.

If the Network takes the customer to court to re-claim damages they claim they have suffered because one of their SIM's was stolen from that customer the Network may have to show they took reasonable steps to limit or prevent those damages.

To my knowledge not a single Network has taken a customer to court over one of these alleged 'debts'.

This article explains the international numbers on your bill and how your money is being shared with the criminals who stole your phone.

International Premium Rate Numbers(IPRN) being used to commit International Revenue Share Fraud (IRSF).
http://bswan.org/revenue_share_fraud.asp#.UWLCCKK-pcb