Badly let down by Paypal protection

JimBeau_2

We bought an item on ebay, paid with Paypal, when it arrived it was broken so we refused to sign for it and sent it back on the delivery lorry, did not even take it off the lorry. We told the seller by email and he said he would be in touch when he got it back. He did not reply to emails and when we called him he told us to make a claim through Paypal. We started a claim and he emailed saying this was the first he had heard of it and did we want a refund through Paypal, we said Yes. Nothing happened so we escalated the claim and ebay asked if we had a tracking number for the return of the item, which of course we didn't as we had not accepted delivery. We pointed out that the seller had not disputed that the item had been returned when we spoke on the phone and had offered a refund but had not made it. Ebay then got hung up on the issue of tracking a returned item and refused to make a refund to us. The seller had 2600 good feedback with 2 minor negatives when we made the purchase but has now disappeared off ebay with a negative from us and from another unpaid refund and is not responding to emails or phone calls. We are left with no item and no money and over £300 out of pocket. Ebay's excuse for non-refund was that we had returned the item without authorisation from the seller or ebay and did not provide tracking information - but when you have a lorry driver standing there asking whether you will sign for delivery of a broken item you don't have time to look through ebay rules for a refund, we thought at the time that the seller would send out another (they had 10 more listed) and wrangle with the delivery company over who was liable. We are very very put off using ebay and especially Paypal and are extremely unhappy about it. Ebay say that once they have made a decision that is the end of the matter, but it isnt as far as we are concerned.

Aquatronixjenny

Who did you open a dispute with? Ebay or Paypal? If you didn't sign for the item then it would be classed as not being delivered, therefore you would have needed to open an INR dispute with Paypal (please correct me if I am wrong as I am an ebay novice). As the seller would have been unable to provide a fully tracked and completed delivery you would have won the case.

JimBeau_2

Unfortunately it was with ebay as "item not as described" and once ebay had decided against us this stopped us going further with Paypal. There is also the complaint of "refund offered but not made" but the offer of refund came after the dispute was started and there is no way of changing the grounds for complaint, as far as I can see.

hermum

I think that a refused delivery is enough for the seller to win the case.
OP do you have signed paperwork from the courier company confirming the goods were damaged & refused?

hermum

Just taken this from ebay help pages.

Can I appeal an eBay Buyer Protection decision?

Buyers may also appeal decisions. If a buyer successfully appeals a decision originally made in favour of the seller, eBay reserves the right to find for the buyer and reimburse the buyer by requesting that PayPal reverse the funds from the seller’s account to the buyer’s account. Where this is not possible, eBay reserves the right to reimburse the buyer directly and recover the reimbursement sum from the seller by charging the seller’s designated payment method or through other means, as necessary (including, without limitation, by engaging collections agencies).

vax2002

you may have to issue county court proceedings against the seller and e.bay, jointly e.bays policy is not the law.
Write a firm letter before action to both giving 7 days for a reply.
E.bay dont generally defend claims below £500 they just pay up once you have the CCJ to avoid it becoming set.
In future, use a credit card to make paypal purchases and pay the balance every month, any problem and you can chargeback e.bay and let them worry about selling dodgy goods.

d.ross_2

It sounds like typical ebay/paypal. They tend not to read statements properly. However you may have mislead them by saying that you returned the item. You didn't return it, you refused delivery, so it was never delivered. You may have also confused them more by saying that the item was not as described. After all how would you know it wasn't as described when you didn't accept delivery?

I know you have explained this to us, but at ebay/paypal they don't seem to be able to think outside the box and use common sense.

I would contact ebay again, and explain that you didn't accept delivery. Also explain that even if you had, then you would have returned it as it was obviously damaged. And even if it hadn't been damaged, then you would have the right to return it under distance selling regulations.

JimBeau_2

We told them over and over what had happened but they got stuck in the rut of tracking the return. Thanks for all comments so far, poster hermum, when you said that a refused delivery is enough to for the seller to win the case, did you mean seller or buyer?

theonlywayisup

Jimbeau, you need to ring Ebay and hope you get a Dublin rep. Tell them you made a grave error and should have opened an item not received case (INR). As the seller cannot prove delivery, you would win hands down. You opened the wrong case and unless you can convince them otherwise, you will be out of pocket.

theonlywayisup

JimBeau wrote: »

We told them over and over what had happened but they got stuck in the rut of tracking the return. Thanks for all comments so far, poster hermum, when you said that a refused delivery is enough to for the seller to win the case, did you mean seller or buyer?

Unfortunately, as you opened the wrong case, You must prove tracking of return to generate a refund,

If you can convince them you made an error and to change the case to Item Not Received, you will win.

hermum

JimBeau wrote: »

We told them over and over what had happened but they got stuck in the rut of tracking the return. Thanks for all comments so far, poster hermum, when you said that a refused delivery is enough to for the seller to win the case, did you mean seller or buyer?

Sorry I meant to quote someone on it who suggested you should have opened an INR, if you had the seller wins as delivery was made & refused.
You should phone ebay, hopefully you will get through to someone sensible.
Do you have the paperwork from the refused delivery?
Or a tracking number, if so what does it say online about the delivery? If that confirms that you refused it put that into the appeal.
If all else fails then it will be small claims court.