SNP Win - The Economics of D-I-V-O-R-C-E

Shakethedisease

After all the discussion here completely discounting the fact that renewables may be the way forward for Scotland and it's future economy.. it seems that Germany is going for it too big time !

Nuclear phase-out can make Germany trailblazer - Merkel
German Chancellor Angela Merkel has said a decision to phase out nuclear power by 2022 can make her country a trailblazer in renewable energy.

"We believe we as a country can be a trailblazer for a new age of renewable energy sources," the German chancellor was quoted as saying by AFP news agency.

"We can be the first major industrialised country that achieves the transition to renewable energy with all the opportunities - for exports, development, technology, jobs - it carries with it."
She also said that electricity in the future should be "safer and at the same time reliable and affordable", linking the decision to step back from nuclear power to the crisis in Japan

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13597627

yes there is natural energy but that will not be enough to build an economy.

Tell that to Merkel ? Looks to me like Salmond and all his 'renewable targets' stuff for Scotland may keeping up with ( or perhaps ahead of ?) the game after all, and the whole thing may not be such a 'pie in the sky' policy as alluded to here after all ? I shall be watching with interest. Surely if Germany can do it by 2022, Scotland with her own vast renewable resources, and a much smaller population.. will be more than able to do likewise ?

There is the issue of course of how politically motivated Merkel's announcement is, but coupled with all the recent hysteria about record greenhouse gas emissions etc etc and Climate change fears.. seems Green energy could be a winner all round at the very least for investment purposes.. unless Climate change is disproven and everyone abandons the whole thing. ( I'm a sceptic as I've mentioned before ).

pbouk

Shakethedisease wrote: »

After all the discussion here completely discounting the fact that renewables may be the way forward for Scotland and it's future economy.. it seems that Germany is going for it too big time !



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13597627



Tell that to Merkel ? Looks to me like Salmond and all his 'renewable targets' stuff for Scotland may keeping up with ( or perhaps ahead of ?) the game after all, and the whole thing may not be such a 'pie in the sky' policy as alluded to here after all ? I shall be watching with interest. Surely if Germany can do it by 2022, Scotland with her own vast renewable resources, and a much smaller population.. will be more than able to do likewise ?

There is the issue of course of how politically motivated Merkel's announcement is, but coupled with all the recent hysteria about record greenhouse gas emissions etc etc and Climate change fears.. seems Green energy could be a winner all round at the very least for investment purposes.. unless Climate change is disproven and everyone abandons the whole thing. ( I'm a sceptic as I've mentioned before ).

yes but its obvious why she has announced this. the nuclear problem in japan has put the wind up alot of countries but lets be realistic, how many earthquakes etc are we gonna get around these parts.
i think its gonna be a very long time before we find a replacement for nuclear power. i heard a german reporter mention the "C" word coal.

Shakethedisease

Ah well, I still think there's much more to what's been 'unsaid' than what is in the public domain at the present time.

Despite the fact a fair proportion of English want rid of the Scottish 'drain' on finances and can't wait to see the back of them. ( vote winner )
Despite the fact that removing Scotland from the political landscape would ensure a Tory majority for a long time to come..( vote winner)
Despite the fact the turning from a 'unionist' party to something a bit 'non-commital' about the whole thing would also be a 'vote winner'

There is still something the current 'every fibre of my being' Government are absolutely desperate to keep hold of regarding Scotland. And they've been caving in pretty fast to SNP 'asks' so far. Even then a lot of them they actually don't have much of a choice over ( crown estate control, Scotland Bill being completely veto'd etc )..with an SNP majority.

Hmmmm.. wonder what it is ? Because something here doesn't add up really at all, does it pbouk ?

pbouk

yes your stupidity.

i noticed on question time this week that they dont think the germans will switch to natural energy, most people believe it is just a way to get the greens on side.

as i have said before everyday that goes by means less and less oil in the north sea, peak production was 10 years ago, so come 10-15 years time it will not be in UK interest to keep scotland in the union.:T

Shakethedisease

No, your stupidity sweetcheeks.. I thought you'd read the thread ? I haven't been talking or crapping on about oil and how much is left and by what means Germany will hit their 'renewable targets'.. I've concentrated on potential sources, jobs and investment numbers and what it may mean for Scotland since they are committed to following a similar path in the very near future. You're stuck in the 1970's.. do join us when you're ready to accept it's now 2011 won't you ?:)

In 2010, investments totaling 26 billion euros were made in Germany’s renewable energies sector. According to official figures, some 370,000 people in Germany were employed in the renewable energy sector in 2010, especially in small and medium sized companies. This is an increase of around 8 percent compared to 2009 (around 339,500 jobs),

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Germany

Generali

Where is Scotland going to get €26,000,000,000 a year in subsidies. That's over €5,000 per head!!!

It's not cheap to create a socialist utopia.

Shakethedisease

Where is Scotland going to get €26,000,000,000 a year in subsidies. That's over €5,000 per head!!!

It's not cheap to create a socialist utopia.

What on earth have you been drinking tonight Generali ? Germany's population is 80 million or so, Scotland's is only 5 million lol !!! I assume you know how to divide, so would suggest that you revise your 'OMG!!!!'-type numbers sharply down there as they look a bit hysterical tbh

Yes a 'socialist utopia' ( as you put it) may not be cheap, but it's certainly nowhere NEAR the figures you're divvying up there for us all to read. Lets get things in context.

If you're sincerely questioning the numbers provided on investments and jobs in Germany over the last 2 years ( 26 billion euros and 370,000 jobs ), then do feel free to let us know that it's all complete tosh. I'd be interested in your analysis.

However since the recent ( increasingly desperate sounding ) economic buzzwords are 'private sector taking up the slack'. Then surely you can't be knocking the Scottish Government for trying at the very least to attempt to reinvigorate manufacturing, re-industrialise, push forward new ideas and technologies and try and garner significant investments based on their very fortunate potential resources ?? Because lets face it, if the UK Government was attempting the same, we'd all be doing cartwheels wouldn't we ? ( unless you personally wouldn't of course ? ).

Surely rather this sort of thing for any economy, and a REAL attempt to re-focus an economy away from financial services, dependence on the public sector and increasing asset prices is a GOOD thing no ? Especially as somewhere as industrialised, export-based and successful as Germany.. is trying to do the exact same thing..can't be all that bad.

Or is it just because it's Scotland ?;) The below is a good start at least for the 'private sector picking up the slack' is it not ?

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/97d55602-2cc7-11e0-83bd-00144feab49a.html#ixzz1ORz7I1vE

Amid the hype concerning Scotland’s potential to benefit from renewable energy, some scepticism has been understandable.
But after the Scottish government last year forecast 26,000 jobs in renewables could be created over the next decade, a string of recent announcements from global engineering companies suggest some of these hopes may now be turning into solid jobs.
Gamesa, the Spanish wind turbine manufacturer, said earlier this month that it could create up to 300 jobs in Scotland through a £40m ($63m) investment. The company wants to set up its centre for offshore engineering in Glasgow, involving up to 130 jobs.

It is also in talks with Forth Ports, based in Edinburgh, to establish a logistics and manufacturing centre in Dundee, which could add up to 170 jobs.
The announcement follows the choice of Glasgow by the energy groups Scottish & Southern Energy and Iberdrola, another Spanish company, as their centre for design and co-ordination of offshore wind farms.
Ignacio G!lan, chairman of Iberdrola, which has a 20 per cent stake in Gamesa, said: “This announcement boosts Scotland’s role as a centre for the expanding offshore wind industry.”
The European arm of Mitsubishi Power Systems announced last month that it would invest up to £100m in an Edinburgh-based research and development centre for offshore wind power. The Japanese-based group also said it had acquired an Edinburgh University spin-off, Artemis Intelligent Power, for an undisclosed amount.
Artemis has developed a hydraulic system to turn wind into electricity without a conventional gearbox – the most vulnerable component of wind turbines.
Mitsubishi said it would safeguard the 25 existing jobs at Artemis and create about 30 more this year. The group said Artemis and the research centre could jointly create about 200 jobs during the next five years.
Akio Fukui, head of Mitsubishi Power Systems Europe, said: “The successful development of this technology will make Scotland a key player in the offshore wind supply chain.”

bonsibabe

Well, I have read through this thread and felt that I had to set the record straight on a few points. And these come from experience as I work for an SNP MSP, am a member of the Scottish National Party, and am proud to be Scottish.

1 The SNP (including Alex Salmond) is not an anti-English party. They are a pro-Scotland party. We are not "Tartan Tories" nor are we the "BNP in Kilts" as has been asserted by (mainly) English journalists. We are the party in Scotland, for Scotland and its people (whatever nationality they are). If the SNP were anti-English I certainly would not be a member, and neither would my father, who is most certainly English!

2 The release of Abdelbasset Al-Megrahi was taken on the grounds of Scottish Law and went through the Scottish Legal System. Kenny MacAskill made the decision given on the information given to him. He is a qualified lawyer and knows what he is talking about. The Westminster government were in secret talks with the Libyans who made veiled threats to Westminster. However, the decision was made based on scots law and judicial practices. I for one fully supported Mr MacAskill, as I resent paying my taxes to keep him in prison where he had a better life than most hardworking folk out there. The US took umbridge, but at the end of the day, they did not contribute to his prison upkeep and they agreed that he was to be tried etc under scottish law, so the decision was a Scottish one. I understand many people did not agree with that decision, but like was stated, it was a decision for the SNP Government and I think they proved their worth. This incident was a drop in the ocean for me as far as the work the Government did in the last Parliamentary term.

3 The referendum is scheduled for the second part of the current parliamentary term. This decision was made by the Government. I do not know the fine terms of it (I'm not high up in the party lol) but I see it in quite plain terms. Once the Parliament has the necessary powers through an amended Scotland Bill, then the SNP Government can do the job of showing the people of Scotland that we can stand on our own two feet and be a prosperous nation in our own right. Then let the people decide for themselves.

4 The free tuition and free prescriptions are paid for through the block grant of "pocket money" that Westminster so kindly lets the Scottish Government have. I say pocket money as it is far less than Scotland pays into the Union in terms of taxation on individuals and businesses and other levies.

5 Unlike Westminster, our priorities are free healthcare and keeping public services public, unlike the Tories in Westminster who are trying to privatise the NHS. Our NHS is completely public and will stay that way. We have lower waiting lists, better cleanliness and free health care for the elderly.

6 The Council Tax in Scotland has now been frozen since 2007 when the SNP were voted into Parliament. In a minority Government they still managed to fulfil 84 out of 94 manifesto promises. I do not think that is a bad innings for a minority government.

7 If 84 out of 94 were delivered as a minority government, then think of the good Scotland can do with the clear majority we now have. The voting system in Scotland was devised by the Unionist parties to ensure that no political party (especially not the SNP) could ever hold a clear majority in Government. I think the 5th of May proved that one wrong. The Scottish people spoke in no uncertain terms and let the other parties know that they are sick of being treated as second class citizens by westminster, and are sick of the lies that we are subjected to. Look at the defence cuts. I have not heard of any RAF bases in England being cut, yet the Tories want to cut 66% of the RAF bases in Scotland, so that everything gets relocated to England. That is not the action of a party that wants Scotland to remain as part of the Union.

8 A couple of posters have intimated that Scotland has no military. That is why 2/3 of the "British" Army are Scottish. We have the Royal Regiment of Scotland. All Scottish Regiments. The Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders are historically a private army within Scotland. I wonder how the rest of the UK would fare if those members of the UK armed forces were to move to a Scottish Defence Force. (and I am ex forces, as is my husband).

I don't want to be antagonistic or start a fight, but I felt that I had to speak out as there has been a heck of a lot of quite racist comments on here about the issue of Scottish independence. I am proud to be Scottish and would never be racially abusive to anyone, regardless of their race or personal beliefs. And if the MSE forums are just for English members of society, then I think my time here is done, as I don't really want to be a part of something that does not accept people for who they are; members of a global community.

Kohoutek

bonsibabe wrote: »

Once the Parliament has the necessary powers through an amended Scotland Bill, then the SNP Government can do the job of showing the people of Scotland that we can stand on our own two feet and be a prosperous nation in our own right.

And you will "show" the people of Scotland that regardless of whether it's true or not?

http://news.scotsman.com/scotland/Adviser-warns-independent-Scotland-would.6775897.jp

ONE of Alex Salmond's key economic advisers has claimed Scotland would gain little from independence which it cannot already get as part of the United Kingdom.

Professor John Kay, of Oxford University, argued in a magazine article that Scotland would be best to opt for greater tax powers while staying in the UK.

He said economic sovereignty for small nations in the modern world is "inescapably limited" and political sovereignty is "largely symbolic".

bonsibabe

Kohoutek wrote: »

And you will "show" the people of Scotland that regardless of whether it's true or not?/QUOTE]

Is there any particular reason why you are clearly xenophobic? You show a hatred for Scottish politics in a way that is unreasoned and ill-informed. The Scotsman article you quote is one article, there are many well educated, erudite people in Scotland who hold a different view - one that shows that Scotland as an independent nation would be prosperous and wealthy.

The SNP Government will work for the good of the people of Scotland and to make our country prosperous.

The Scottish people have been subjugated by Westminster for over 300 years ... it is time for change ... before the Act of Union, we were a proud independent nation ... some of us are sick and tired of being branded sponging jocks and the like, when we work just as hard and contribute just as much if not more to the "UK" economy, to have our "pocket money" from a Goverment that wants to cut too hard and too fast, especially north of the border. I look forward to the day when I wake up knowing that my taxes are paid in Scotland and stay here.

And I am half English ... my father is English and a member of the SNP, as are quite a few members of the SNP Cabinet. I'd like to know how some folk get their info that we are anti-English ... all I have seen on this thread is anti-Scottish comments.