Vodafone are Dire. So Dire.

Mehman_2

Hi,

This is in part a copy of the written letter i'll be sending off tomorrow to vodafone's complaints department.. Just curious if anyone had anything they think i should add.
Plus its also nice for potential customers to read how absolutely TERRIBLE they are at customer service, service in general and finally remembering things their own reps promised over the phone.

I got a contract 360 M1 phone back in November 2011.. with Vodafone.
It never worked properly, i only realised after going self employed ... i didnt know till i actually tried calling my own phone from the house to test its reliability, 3 out of 5 calls got through. For every call i miss, thats a potential customer lost.. Not to mention the fact it only sends messages/calls when it decides to.. Same with the replacement handset.

Here's the letter:

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To Whom it may Concern,

Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 (SOGASA82)
"Any service given should be given with resonable care and skill and goods provided should be of satisfactory quality"

I agreed to an upgrade of my phone package/tariff during a phonecall complaint made to your company in an effort to receive a working handset. This phonecall was placed on approx. 07/04, under a month ago, at time of writing. I agreed to this on the provision if the phone stopped working after the 7-day return period i could still send it back and cancel my contract - no question asked. The vodafone representative obviously agreed... as he sent the phone.

I would like a transcript or recording of the entirity of this call to prove what was agreed.

The replacement handset has since stopped working and so your company is in breach of contract - as such for that reason with reference to the phone call conversdation i am legally entitled to cancel with no cancellation charges.

Furthermore i wouldn't be writing this letter if the current phone staff had the ability to offer me a cancellation whilst waiving the early cancellation fee as was promised when i changed my tariff. Even though they apparently have a case history i had to repeat that i have through 2 handsets already and lost business due to the phone\networks unreliability to so many people, when it came to the last rep i just asked for the call to be escalated immediately as i was so tired of repeating myself.
To which he replied he would be unwilling to forward me to a manager as i had already spoken to one today. Apparently you're only allotted one worthwhile phonecall a day, the rest of them consist of being told to remove the battery. This employee today messing me about was called ' XXXXX A ' he refused to give me his surname, put me through to his manager or give me an employee reference citing:
"Its not company policy to give that information"
However his manager did: " XXXXX XXXXX B "

" XXXXX A" 's level of customer service was severely lacking.

Finally, the unreliability of the phone i've been sent and\or of your network has taken any faith i had in your company. I repeat i would like to cancel with no fees as was originally agreed on over the phone and as i am entitled by law.

Please rectify my problem and respond within 14 days.
Regards,
Me.

Ps - This is the short version, having gone through 2 handsets. Hopefully this is enough for a reasonable person to see this is too much to justify paying for something that doesn't work!!
Also - £300 fee? What idiot thinks that's justified it's more than the 24 month contract.

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Before drafting this i got advice from trading standards on what my legal position was and how they are in breach of contract..
..As ive said in the letter, one of their guys agreed that i could cancel no questions asked IF it stopped working after the 7 days..

I hope they find record of that call - where i apparently agreed to further my contract/upgrade.. Because it was during that same call their rep said what he said.
So if we're all held to the same contract, they should be too? right?

But the lady at trading standards told me them sending over non-working handsets is an immediate breach of contract anyway..
..Also coupled by the fact that today i was told the second handset i got sent through was a REFURBISHED one, not even new in the first place. sigh. Then the guy says because they really want to keep me as a customer he'll offer to send me a new one and give me a month free (aka a tenners worth of phone calls) like hes doing me a favor??

Like the third handset will make a difference and its not like they should have just sent me a new one in the first place.

Also the same 'manager' was telling me he was conferring with the legal department whilst hes got me on hold.. Telling me that i'm stuck to the contract i agreed on during the phone call, but he/vodafone's not..
However the second guy i spoke to said they either didn't have a legal department or he couldnt put me through to them. Mind you this was the same unhelpful chap who wouldnt even let me speak to the manager i'd spoken to earlier in the day to dispute the contract.


To be honest there's more, but its 6pm and i started trying to get this tripe resolved at 11am.. Ive already cancelled my direct debits and my cards, tomorrow i will be closing my associated bank account and opening a new one.
Even if they don't resolve the situation as they should do - the right way. They wont get a penny more out of me for non existant service and !!!! customer care.


I have removed the names of the unhelpful employees, and me

Enjoy.
Dont get a voda phone.

gjchester

Theres a lot of text so bear with me if I trim bits.

Mehman wrote: »

I got a contract 360 M1 phone back in November 2011.. with Vodafone.

First I assume you got the phone in november 2010 not 2011..

Mehman wrote: »

It never worked properly, i only realised after going self employed ... i didnt know till i actually tried calling my own phone from the house to test its reliability, 3 out of 5 calls got through. For every call i miss, thats a potential customer lost.. Not to mention the fact it only sends messages/calls when it decides to.. Same with the replacement handset.

How many times did you call Vodafone to complain about this? Do you have a personal or business contract? What evidence do you have the phone is at fault not the network, is it possible there is so so signal and thats causing calls to drop?

What I'm getting at here is is it the phone or the network at fault. Did you have this problem before, do others on vodafone have this problem at your house?

Mehman wrote: »

Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 (SOGASA82)
"Any service given should be given with resonable care and skill and goods provided should be of satisfactory quality"

Correct, however a mobile contract is really two contracts the handset and the airtime. A faulty handset is not grounds to cancel the airtime agreement. Again can you show it's the handset or the phone?

Mehman wrote: »

I agreed to an upgrade of my phone package/tariff during a phonecall complaint made to your company in an effort to receive a working handset. This phonecall was placed on approx. 07/04, under a month ago, at time of writing. I agreed to this on the provision if the phone stopped working after the 7-day return period i could still send it back and cancel my contract - no question asked. The vodafone representative obviously agreed... as he sent the phone.

The call in november was about an upgrade, the call last month was about the faulty phone, two different contracts, you cannot cancel the airtime contract over a phone fault as previously mentioned. By sending the phone unless they specifically said they were agreeing to that term they committed to nothing to do with the cancellation of the contract, and thats probably not in a call centre agents power to do anyway.

When exactly did the replacement stop working, for us its nice to know but Vodafone will have a log of your calls, if it's beyond that 7 day window your out of luck.

Mehman wrote: »

The replacement handset has since stopped working and so your company is in breach of contract - as such for that reason with reference to the phone call conversdation i am legally entitled to cancel with no cancellation charges.

Sorry but you do not have that right.

You can ask for a repair, replacment of the device, but not the replacement or cancellation or a contract. However it's down to the retailer to chose if they repair/replace/cancel the contract.

If they refuse to repair or replace the phone there is a case for breach, but not until they do so.

You also have to give Vodafone the option to repair or replace the phone, you cannot just decide that as there has been a fault you want to cancel.

Mehman wrote: »

Furthermore i wouldn't be writing this letter if the current phone staff had the ability to offer me a cancellation whilst waiving the early cancellation fee as was promised when i changed my tariff.

Most plans since July 2009 are the Your Plan type. They cannot be changed (up or down) during the minimum term. Something does not make sense here.

The call centre staff have the ability to do what the computer will allow, they may have some wiggle room but not much, they would not be allowed to cancel a contract, best offer would be a discount on line rental or refund of line rental but not change of the contract.

It's nothing to do with the call centre people but what there access level permits them.

Mehman wrote: »

Even though they apparently have a case history i had to repeat that i have through 2 handsets already and lost business due to the phone\networks unreliability to so many people, when it came to the last rep i just asked for the call to be escalated immediately as i was so tired of repeating myself.

Finally, the unreliability of the phone i've been sent and\or of your network has taken any faith i had in your company. I repeat i would like to cancel with no fees as was originally agreed on over the phone and as i am entitled by law.

Again if you want to claim a business loss you must be on a business contract with consequential loss before you can even claim for lost business. If your on a personal tarriff you'll have very little chance.

Again the phone does seem to be faulty, but thats no reason to cancel the airtime contract. The terms and conditions are very clear.

2 What is this agreement for?

This agreement is for your SIM card and the minutes, texts, data and other services that you use. This agreement does not cover buying or maintaining any mobile equipment that we have given you. If your mobile equipment stops working, is lost or stolen, you must still keep to this agreement and pay the monthly line-rental charges until the agreement has ended. If your mobile equipment is lost or stolen, you will also have to pay for all usage charges and other charges up to the time you tell us that it has been lost or stolen.

Mehman wrote: »

But the lady at trading standards told me them sending over non-working handsets is an immediate breach of contract anyway..
..Also coupled by the fact that today i was told the second handset i got sent through was a REFURBISHED one, not even new in the first place.

Every maker has bad parts come out of the factory, if you got a dud you get it changed. No breech of contract unless they are unwilling to exchange it.

The phone that you had as a replacement has to be in the same state as the one youy had, that means up to 6 mohnths old, you have no right to a new phone. The one you sent back was not new.

Mehman wrote: »

Then the guy says because they really want to keep me as a customer he'll offer to send me a new one and give me a month free (aka a tenners worth of phone calls) like hes doing me a favor??

Like the third handset will make a difference and its not like they should have just sent me a new one in the first place.

He is. They have to offer to repair or exchange the phone, the line rental offer was over and above what they have to offer you.

Mehman wrote: »

To be honest there's more, but its 6pm and i started trying to get this tripe resolved at 11am.. Ive already cancelled my direct debits and my cards, tomorrow i will be closing my associated bank account and opening a new one.
Even if they don't resolve the situation as they should do - the right way. They wont get a penny more out of me for non existant service and !!!! customer care.

Actually you'll find you get black listed, damaged credit record for up to six years and if it goes on then debt collectors get involved. Stopping payment puts you at default so you'd be seen as the party at fault.

Start again. Rip this whole thing up. Get a drink.

Write at the top that you are paying the monthly bill under sufference and wish this to be logged on your file, that way payment is being made but you putting a hold on any action, as well as saying your happy and want this resolved.

Put the whole thing in writing, with details, names (if you have them) times and dates where you can and explain the issues. Don't put in anything about one call centre person doing this and another other doing that, it stops being factual and becomes hearsay. Stick to the facts.

Finally send it recordered mail to the address on your contract or bill. Not the head office, not the address you get by searching the web, but the one on your bill. Follow there procedures.

Mehman_2

I appreciate the lengthy reply but all this hassle with customer service has nackered me, and im off to bed. You were correct about the date at the begining though lol.

I will say this, being my key point of contention that i partly missed out..
They said at first the phone was bought in a shop, not their responsibility..
..Then when they offered the upgrade they chose to swap phones to fix the fault.. The fault is still not fixed, this has been going on for over a month now. Their own rep agreed over the phone to cancel the contract...

and it was in this phonecall that i apparently signed a verbal contract to start a new 24 month plan.


If they cant produce evidence of that, in the form of a transcript.. how do they possibly hope to enforce it?
If they can produce evidence, that evidence will show their advisor did indeed off the chance for me to return it no-strings-attached after the 7 days had expired.


cheers

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I do appreciate your advice.. but it seems a bit odd? you want me to say im happy and want it resolved. It couldnt be further from the truth, ive made 5 complete waste-of-time phonecalls today ALONE. They are one of the worst companies ive ever had to deal with...

Also about 'hearsay' personally if one of my employees was a complete shithead.. and he was aggrovating customers, id want it mentioned... even if it only gets tick put beside his name for the next customer to get dumped on to come and complain, then he gets 2 ticks..

If nobody says anything about people they just get away with it forever lol.

But yeh, i will send it recorded mail cheers

gjchester

Mehman wrote: »

Also about 'hearsay' personally if one of my employees was a complete shithead.. and he was aggrovating customers, id want it mentioned... even if it only gets tick put beside his name for the next customer to get dumped on to come and complain, then he gets 2 ticks..

But yeh, i will send it recorded mail cheers

I'm not defending vodafone, but if you bought it in store you need to go back to them, no idea whay they did it another way.


Your right if their customer care is bad they need to know, but calling someone names or quoting hearsay won't help, you need to stick to the facts and dates. Otherwise it's he said, she said.

Stick to the facts, keep your animosilty out of it , if you get in an argument they'll be less likely to help you.

Good luck..

Guys_Dad

You should really listen to gjchester. being utterly frank, your letter is grammatically poor, with spelling errors and you come across as a badly informed barrack room lawyer.

Now I know that isn't what you want to hear, but it is the truth.

I would wait a day, get your letter shortened, grammatically checked, run through a spell checker and take on board the good advice from gjchester.

You have certain rights and you can exercise them. You have a right to a working handset. However, at this point, you have no rights to cancel your contract.

But, at the end of the day, it's your call. You came on here asking for advice. Just wait and weigh up what experienced members advise. By all means, ignore that advice, but underneath all of this, we are on your side, but want to see you win, not make a pig's ear of it.

Remember the tale of the little bird who was put in dung to keep warm.

gjchester

Mehman wrote: »

you want me to say im happy and want it resolved. It couldnt be further from the truth, ive made 5 complete waste-of-time phonecalls today ALONE.

Sorry my bad, I meant you are unhappy, not happy....

Point is thney know you have a problem but are paying to show good faith.

Mehman_2

I'm sorry guys but you've lost me a bit...


You say i don't have a right to cancel a contract.. Despite there being no contract?
(Furthermore.. i have Already cancelled my contract.. i had done that before i posted the above yesterday.. im now disputing the cancellation fees as according to trading standards, im not liable)

This is my point, there is no contract, i haven't signed one.
The original one i signed in the shop, they dont have and i believe aren't holding me to...


They are holding me to a verbal agreement made on a phonecall with a member of staff who promised me that i could cancel after the 7 days..

You said:
" By sending the phone unless they specifically said they were agreeing to that term they committed to nothing to do with the cancellation of the contract, and thats probably not in a call centre agents power to do anyway. "

The guy did specifically agree that if i was unhappy i can send it back... If he doesnt have the power to do that, as i said.. he shouldnt have implied he could make that agreement and agree to it by sending the phone.


They record all calls right?
If i'm to be held to this contract why aren't they held to the terms their employee laid down on the day i chose to upgrade?
If they can't produce that or dispute that, how can they prove i even signed up to the contract?

Doesn't that seem like a valid point of contention?


I do appreciate all your advise, i honestly would listen... and just 'do what im told by the experts'
But you guys keep telling me i dont have the right to cancel a basic service that doesnt work and im not bound to and that im stuck paying for..
..and i dont buy that, but you're right, im not a lawyer.. Hopefully if this does go to court though someone there will have some common sense.



----


I am curious about something Guys Dad said... I wrote the letter freehand and then typed it up at 50wpm whilst not really looking at the screen..
But you say its not grammatically correct and there's plenty spelling mistakes... really?

Do you think its so bad they wont be able to understand and that might cause me to have to write another letter to explain what the first letter means?
It's just, the purpose of the letter is to get my point across, not to win an english competition or make friends at vodafone..

cheers

andy1974_2

Dont mess about with customer services I had problems with the H1 which I purchased in 12 2009 and kept missing calls, email would not work properly and the internet kept crashing. I told them it was not fit for purpose.

I emailed the CEO link below and had a phone call the next day stating that the 360 phones did have problems and that I could pick any phone apart from an I Phone so I picked the Samsung Galaxy S and kept my original contract dates.

http://campaigns.vodafone.co.uk/guylaurence/?WT.srch=1&cid=ppc-goo-cbu-c21-2621-ex

MaggotAJ

Got to agree with andy1974. When I have hit a brick wall with Vodafone in the past I have gone above the customer service helpers to get it sorted. Usually they just want to get you off the phone ASAP.

gjchester

Mehman wrote: »

You say i don't have a right to cancel a contract.. Despite there being no contract?
(Furthermore.. i have Already cancelled my contract.. i had done that before i posted the above yesterday.. im now disputing the cancellation fees as according to trading standards, im not liable)

You are right, what would have been clearer is to say "cancel without fees". You have the right to cancel at anytime, but if you have not passed the minimum terms there will be termination fee's.

The only place you'll really know if your legally liable is in a court, but I hope it won't go to that. By the sounds of it the phone is faulty and should be repaired or replaced, but that does not give you any right to cancel the airtime side without penalty.

Mehman wrote: »

This is my point, there is no contract, i haven't signed one.
The original one i signed in the shop, they dont have and i believe aren't holding me to...

They are holding me to a verbal agreement made on a phonecall with a member of staff who promised me that i could cancel after the 7 days..

Verbal contracts are legally as binding as signed ones, just harder to prove.

If you say you don't have a contract as you never signed one you can't then claim you made a verbal contract with the call center bod. If you want to claim your request to cancel the contract is obeyed then you have to accept the contract in November was valid. You can't pick and choose which verbal contract you want to enforce.

Mehman wrote: »

The guy did specifically agree that if i was unhappy i can send it back... If he doesnt have the power to do that, as i said.. he shouldnt have implied he could make that agreement and agree to it by sending the phone.

Did he agreed you could send the phone back in 7 days, or you could cancel the contract? You've now said it both ways. Thats probably the crux of the matter..

Also did you call and try and return the phone in that 7 day window or afterwards, again you've not stated that either way.

Mehman wrote: »

They record all calls right?
If i'm to be held to this contract why aren't they held to the terms their employee laid down on the day i chose to upgrade?
If they can't produce that or dispute that, how can they prove i even signed up to the contract?

Doesn't that seem like a valid point of contention?

No idea if they record all I don't work for VF.

Again it's the point a verbal contract is just as legally valid just harder to prove. IF vodafone does not have a recording can you prove otherwise. Unless you too recorded the call it's all in the air.

Mehman wrote: »

But you guys keep telling me i dont have the right to cancel a basic service that doesnt work and im not bound to and that im stuck paying for..
..and i dont buy that, but you're right, im not a lawyer.. Hopefully if this does go to court though someone there will have some common sense.

You can cancel but as you've not hit the mimimum term you'll get a fee. If theres a fault on the handset get it repaired or replaced.

As I said early on what evidence do you have it's the network or is it the handset. Do others have the same issue at your home or is it just your phone? If it's your phone then you need to get it fixed but thats not grounds to cancel the airtime contract without charges.

The nature of mobile phones, and a radio network means service is not guaranteed everywhere, and it too is stated in the contract.

If you have stopped payment before the contract was cancelled then you'll be the one at default not VF. Common sense would say you stopped paying for a service you were still using, so VF would be the wronged party.

However I doubt it would ever get to court.

Mehman_2

I appreciate your help but its all underway now anyway.. ive sent them a letter via recorded delivery explaining i wont be paying the termination fees as i was told by their rep over the phone i wouldnt be liable if the phone started playing up after the 7 day period run out and i would be able to cancel...

I dont understand where your confused about me not signing anything? I have written and admitted several times i agreed over the phone to extend my contract.. However i have not signed a written contract? is that clearer.

i can't remember word-for-word exactly what he said, but the gist of it, was what ive said above.. He told me, i could cancel regardless and would not be liable..

As you say though, if they dont have the call recorded.. and i entered a 'verbal contract' over the phone.. i dont see how they can prove he didnt say that and hence prove i agreed to take part in the contract that includes these cancellation fees?

And surely it would be on them to prove that? if they expect me to pay the cancellation charges.

My key point of contention is... If they can prove i entered into a verbal contract, that same piece of evidence will show their rep agreed to let me out the contract if the phone continued to not-work...
Luckily i didnt get too contractual when i was adding in that term and start saying things like "but it has to be the phone not working and not the network, etc" otherwise i might have to worry about some of the points you're raising i imagine..

Finally their rep also never said on the phone when he was extending my contract that i was agreeing to two seperate contracts one for the phone and one for the airtime.. All he told me was i would be getting the replacement phone and moving down to a cheaper tariff.. which would in turn resolve my problems... which it didnt.

Regardless im leaving this issue well alone for now because its undue stress i cant be bothered with.. I'll leave it to them and if they decide to persue like the afghans say..
They may have the watches, but i have the time.