How do I prove he is depriving himself of income?

clearingout

jetta_wales wrote: »

Is there really any excuse to need to scrimp and save on £300 extra a month?

depends what you earn and what your reasonable outgoings are, surely? Again, someone with no mortgage and a professional job may find that just fine. Someone paying £1k mortgage a month on a salary of £25k plus full time childcare for two children and has £15k of martial debt plus legal bills to service may well have a 'need' for more than that. No one is suggesting the children in this situation are going without food or a roof over their heads. But they may well be going without swimming or football lessons or holidays or a nice new pair of trainers once in a while. Or how about mum is able to put some money away for her retirement once in a while? I know I sure as hell can't 'cos the house needs re-pointing, 4 windows need replacing, every room in the house could do with complete re-decoration and there's a hole in my hallway ceiling (don't ask!)..... Not saving for my future is a great source of worry to me and I feel sure is a worry to other Parents with Care in this kind of situation.

kelloggs36

SarahT1980 wrote: »

I split with ex husband in 2002 and he has paid maintenance via DEO about £68 a week ever since. He was never a man of many words and gives the CSA the silent treatment.

The strange thing is ever since the CSA put a DEO on his employer, which I know he was very bitter about, the money has never gone up, its varied slightly over the years as tax codes change, but he is still earning precisely £15000 a year as a builder. Since the DEO he refuses to speak to the CSA on the phone and always says, Sorry Data Protection Act your ID is not verified you know the score, then hangs up on them.

Whats more strange is his employer. He has worked for him since the 80s and according to companies house, the Ltd Company is now owned by his new GIRLFRIEND and his BEST MATE as directors. Neither are builders she is an architect and he is an accountant. I found out his employer died in 2005 and passed the company to my ex in his will because he didn’t have any family of his own.

He was also the executor at probate and he must have disinherited himself or sold the company as a knockdown to his girlfriend so he could fix his income by remaining a PAYE employee to get out of paying the CSA what he should be paying.

I know he is doing more than just a builder because they have a big country farm house, a block of 16 flats and a luxury villa all built by him as the site foreman. As for the villa, we are talking a 7 bedroom pile in Andalusia, and its website has his girlfriends name all over it and rented for £1850 a week. He lied saying he built them for his employers client plus where do all the cars and exotic holidays come from? No way has he done this on £15K.

The CSA says they have investigated and he has no registered land in his name, cant find out about the villa, and only one RBS bank account for his wages.

The CSA wanted to interview him about his lifestyle, but he got a solicitor to get him out of it. HMRC wont investigate because he pays tax doesnt claim benefits and the company staff payroll is handled by his mate, an accountant.

This all looks very illegal, he must be hiding money, where is all that rental income from his flats and other properties going? How can he enjoy such a lifestyle on £15K? Its not fair. He must be doing this to punish me because the court gave me the house, which he never finished anyway and he fought the CSA over the deduction order and lost.

Can you get a copy of the will? It would be great evidence at a tribunal? Lots of wills are publically available.

fannyanna

izzybusy23 wrote: »

Which he should be paying 15, 20 or 25% of his wages for.. the percentages are in place for a reason. Your ex will still have 75 / 80% of wages left over which is a hell of a lot of money.. but still, if it makes you feel good that you are taking the moral high ground then good for you; I still think you are an utter fool.

As the old saying goes; a fool and his money are soon parted :cool:

There are plenty of people with private arrangements that are below the CSA level - just as there are private arrangements that are the above the CSA level.

The thing with a private arrangement is that both sides are able to come to an agreement like adults and work out what is best for them (and the children). What's best for one set of parents (and children) is not necessarily best for another.

izzybusy23

fannyanna wrote: »

There are plenty of people with private arrangements that are below the CSA level - just as there are private arrangements that are the above the CSA level.

The thing with a private arrangement is that both sides are able to come to an agreement like adults and work out what is best for them (and the children). What's best for one set of parents (and children) is not necessarily best for another.

Oh I totally agree; private arrangements are all well and good until something comes along to upset it all, say a new partner then a new child, redundancy, pay cuts etc.

The CSA put percentages in place for a reason which is a guide they think a child needs to live on; I think its daft to turn down money you are legally entitled to because anything could happen as stated above; then the extra money they were receiving beforehand could had provided a buffer. I get 10% because my ex had a child beforehand; so thats 20% split between two PWC's, and he has yet another on the way with his new piece, so we will get even less shortly (whether he stays with her and we get assessed on 85% of his income or she goes via the CSA and they take 25% of his income and we all end up with just over 8%).. these things happen; all I am saying is if you are offered 15% grab it, before things change as they invariably do!

jetta_wales

Not everybody wants to grab what they can while they can incase things change go sour. The reason we still all spend Christmas together with him staying at ours and see him regularly doing things together with the girls is largely because I have never held such an attitude toward our separation,

izzybusy23

clearingout wrote: »

depends what you earn and what your reasonable outgoings are, surely? Again, someone with no mortgage and a professional job may find that just fine. Someone paying £1k mortgage a month on a salary of £25k plus full time childcare for two children and has £15k of martial debt plus legal bills to service may well have a 'need' for more than that. No one is suggesting the children in this situation are going without food or a roof over their heads. But they may well be going without swimming or football lessons or holidays or a nice new pair of trainers once in a while. Or how about mum is able to put some money away for her retirement once in a while? I know I sure as hell can't 'cos the house needs re-pointing, 4 windows need replacing, every room in the house could do with complete re-decoration and there's a hole in my hallway ceiling (don't ask!)..... Not saving for my future is a great source of worry to me and I feel sure is a worry to other Parents with Care in this kind of situation.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that children who do not do extra curricular activities or have at least one holiday a year are classed as being in poverty.. can't remember where I read that though.

As a PWC I too worry about saving for my future; its a way off yet though and hoping things will change at some point; if my darned ex will leave me alone to get on with it and meet someone else and not keep harping on about 'our past'... all this whilst he still lives with his pregnant girlfriend he left me for and trying as hard as he can to evade the CSA which is now going down the DEO route

izzybusy23

jetta_wales wrote: »

Not everybody wants to grab what they can while they can incase things change go sour. The reason we still all spend Christmas together with him staying at ours and see him regularly doing things together with the girls is largely because I have never held such an attitude toward our separation,

Thats good that you can keep that attitude; however, things do and can change; I'm not sure why anybody wouldn't want to buffer themselves against unforseen events.

SarahT1980

kelloggs36 wrote: »

Can you get a copy of the will? It would be great evidence at a tribunal? Lots of wills are publically available.

We got a copy of the will, but there are technicalities that gag the CSA, and HMRC are not interested because the tax liabilities have been paid.

The wording says the assets (including the company) "shall be held upon trust for" him, rather than "give devise and bequeath to" him and there is no end-date on the trust. This means all gifts are held upon trust for my X until the trustee closes the trust. As he is the trustee, a general provision in the will (Power of Appointment) enabled him to appoint a co-trustee and form a discretionary trust which means my X can now dispose of the assets as "he shall think fit" before winding up the trust whenever he thought the CSA liability finishes.

Apparently under the 1925 trustee act, trustees cannot be coerced and are under a statutory duty to protect the beneficiaries – himself. This means a court has no power to revoke the terms of the will unless they can show the testator did not have testamentary capacity at the time or a legitimate claim can be proved from a biological descendant of the testator.

Another expert looked at the will and says the testators intentions are clear in that he implicitely wished his estate to benefit the beneficiary and not the beneficiary's creditors. Hence the complex trust wordings.

We cannot prove the company is being held upon trust by the shareholders for my X until such time he chooses to end it, and he has no obligation to discuss any trust matters with the CSA. Under the Power of Appointment terms of the will, he can hire and fire trustees.

There are 4 shareholders of the company and my X is not one of them. He is one of 30-something employees on its books. I dont know who the two minority shareholders are, there are dividends but as an employee my X doesnt get any.

jetta_wales

Very few people in this country will ever know poverty, it is a ridiculous work to use for a family who don't get holidays or dance lessons.

Heard it used in such ways in many so called studies in the news recently and it's ridiculous and an insult to those who actually are in real poverty.

izzybusy23

jetta_wales wrote: »

Very few people in this country will ever know poverty, it is a ridiculous work to use for a family who don't get holidays or dance lessons.

Heard it used in such ways in many so called studies in the news recently and it's ridiculous and an insult to those who actually are in real poverty.

Don't shoot the messenger.