WARNING SOLAR PANELS & some Siemens S2AS-100/ Siemens S1AS-100 Meters

furndire

Please I must make it clear, its not ASG that has anything to do with my panels.
I've bought my panels outright from another company.

The reason I said about the "free panels" was because the people who have them will find it even more difficult to work out what is happening - they won't know what the electric is producing from day to day - it won't be in their suppliers interest to give them a monitor. Its only because the sun seems to be exceptionally bright that you can see what is happening - if it was a dull day, you would not necessarily notice much difference - expecially with digital meters like mine which only seems to go up in 1's. At least with the old meters you could see a wheel going round, or the end figures rolling up.

If I have alerted one person to this potential problem - I am well pleased.

I've no doubt ASG will sort out yours Pauldeed, as originally I was going to go with them - they seem to be a really decent company.

Pincher

Confusion over meter running backwards and forwards was the first thing that popped into my head when FIT was introduced.

What if you go on holiday between meter reads?
The meter reader's machine refuses to take a lower reading than the previous one.

Obviously a digital meter can't run backwards, so unless there is a separate import and export counter specifically designed for this, how can it work?

In fact, I still don't understand how the meter knows when it's exporting, since it's AC, so there is supposed to be current back and forth? With DC, you know which way the current is going.

If you were on Economy 7, the day time electricity you would have used is more expensive, but you still get the same FIT payment for the export units as somebody on non-E7.

As usual, there probably is a room full of people who understand it really well, but they didn't tell the fifty thousand installers and call centre staff.

furndire

Pincher wrote: »

Confusion over meter running backwards and forwards was the first thing that popped into my head when FIT was introduced.

What if you go on holiday between meter reads?
The meter reader's machine refuses to take a lower reading than the previous one.

Obviously a digital meter can't run backwards, so unless there is a separate import and export counter specifically designed for this, how can it work?

In fact, I still don't understand how the meter knows when it's exporting, since it's AC, so there is supposed to be current back and forth? With DC, you know which way the current is going.

If you were on Economy 7, the day time electricity you would have used is more expensive, but you still get the same FIT payment for the export units as somebody on non-E7.

As usual, there probably is a room full of people who understand it really well, but they didn't tell the fifty thousand installers and call centre staff.

Or the people who say solar works in the smallest amount of light, but fail to tell you that the invertor doesn't.
(panels do work with quite a low light, we have one on our van and its even worked parked up a very bright street light - negligible amount, but it did produce some energy on the regulator) but that isn't being converted to AC with an invertor.

Equaliser123

As a suggestion - can you switch ALL appliances off in the house for an hour to reduce your draw to pretty much zero. Then check the start and finish readings on the inverter and compare them to the the electric meter.

I assume that if your point is proven, the meter will have increased by about the same amount as the inverter has recorded.

Cardew

furndire wrote: »

Please I must make it clear, its not ASG that has anything to do with my panels.
I've bought my panels outright from another company.

The reason I said about the "free panels" was because the people who have them will find it even more difficult to work out what is happening - they won't know what the electric is producing from day to day - it won't be in their suppliers interest to give them a monitor.

If I have alerted one person to this potential problem - I am well pleased.

I've no doubt ASG will sort out yours Pauldeed, as originally I was going to go with them - they seem to be a really decent company.

Agreed, it is a potential problem that will be far harder for 'Rent a Roof' customers to pick up, and your 'alert' is timely.

My point was that ASG have an excellent reputation and there has been nothing but(deserved) praise for them on this forum. However if they did not notice the problem(surely it is unlikely to be faulty meters?) it is a good bet that other companies(both 'rent a roof' and for purchase) won't.

Pincher

Remember when it was not allowed to attach non-BT-approved devices to the phone line? That was just a low power current loop that wouldn't hurt anybody. Now we are expected to export electricity across a 100Amp domestic supply! :eek:

God knows what other cheapskate gadgets people will concoct to connect to the mains. I am waiting to hear a news story like: "The whole neighbourhood suffered a blackout because an idiot hooked up a turbo intercooled diesel from a lorry to the local mains, overloaded the system, tripped the breakers at the substation, and the excess voltage killed a large number of voltage sensitive appliances. Computers with cheap surge protectors died anyway, because they are useless."

I wonder who is going to hook up a diesel generator and start over-exporting?:think: Depending on the cost per kWh, it might become viable to run a generator on chip fat during day time, export the unused excess, and only use off peak Economy 7 electricity.

furndire

Equaliser123 wrote: »

As a suggestion - can you switch ALL appliances off in the house for an hour to reduce your draw to pretty much zero. Then check the start and finish readings on the inverter and compare them to the the electric meter.

I assume that if your point is proven, the meter will have increased by about the same amount as the inverter has recorded.

We did that & thats why I realised.

I do a weekly read of all my meters, and lost the bit of paper, so went to read it again & found to my horror it had clocked on a couple of KW in a very short time. I found my bit of paper) . The sun was really blazing and we only had on background stuff on - that was when we went & switched everything off & the meter still clocked up slightly longer than the generation meter, but that would be accounted for by the invertor kicking in. After a short while we started turning everything back on, and the meter slowed down drastically from one every 10 mins to 1 every hour and longer when we put a little fan heater on. Thats why I do know its happening.

Luckily I have been keeping record of our Main & Generation meters every week since begining of Middle of December, and before that I had been putting regular weekly readings in to the suppliers. So somehow there must be a bit of a way to work out what we have been charged for.

furndire

Cardew wrote: »

My point was that ASG have an excellent reputation and there has been nothing but(deserved) praise for them on this forum. However if they did not notice the problem(surely it is unlikely to be faulty meters?) it is a good bet that other companies(both 'rent a roof' and for purchase) won't.

Totally agree on above. I know I feel a bit stupid not spotting this before but at least by being open others seeing this hopefully will be aware.

I have been trying to read a little bit of the Manual Expresso found in post 8 above (although I really can't understand much of it) I have a feeling that the electric meter should maybe have been programmed to take account of the export of electricity - certainly appears to have this facility in it. With some luck the exported electricity may well be recorded on its memory. I'm keeping everything crossed that it is.

Suppliers are coming on 10th May to put another meter side by side with ours to check one against the other, as initially I thought the meter was running fast, & was maybe faulty. I will be ringing them tomorrow to make sure that whoever comes knows re export, as I don't think that it will show up what is happening if the meters are side by side. Also, I hope to goodness it is a bright sunny day when they come, so I can show them what I mean. If its dull there's no chance of physically being able to see the problem.

furndire

Pincher, that's why we use "certified" installers - who theoretically know what they are doing. Unfortunatley they install to the fuse box & probably won't take responsibilty for the fact the meter isn't working correctly.

I'll be back on the phone to installers again tomorrow to let them know what I have found, and see what their reaction is. Guessing it'll not be their problem - even more so for the Installers of "free Panels".

Until now I've been very pleased with them, but now we come down to the nitty gritty as there is a problem.
(edit, installers have said they will help all they can - also financially if needs be)

If you go back to http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=43125488&postcount=302 someone else had the same problem

Pincher

furndire wrote: »

Pincher, that's why we use "certified" installers - who theoretically know what they are doing. Unfortunatley they install to the fuse box & probably won't take responsibilty for the fact the meter isn't working correctly.

Don't get me started. I just had a new mains consumer unit (fuse box) put in. I had to rush out to get the earth clamp, a backing board and rubber feet to so he can mount it properly. I provided the correct size AND colour cable clips, which he couldn't be bothered to use.

Tested everything except the door bell, paid him, waved goodbye:
and then the door bell doesn't work. Took a few things apart, and he had snapped a terminal on the 12V transformer, which had been working fine for ten years. By some miracle, I managed to solder it back in place, otherwise it would be rushing out the third time that day. Despite the new consumer unit having a built-in spirit level, it isn't quite level. Fortunately it's inside a staircase cupboard.

These days "certified" just means they charge too much to do a bad job. I prefer 50 year old guys who went through proper apprenticeships, and has decades of experience over "certified" any day.

PS.

Oh yes, turned up at 8am, so it was his first job: and his cordless drill batteries were FLAT! Ended up doing the whole job with my Bosch cordless drill, while his batteries were charged up. Thank God I wasn't paying him by the hour.