WARNING SOLAR PANELS & some Siemens S2AS-100/ Siemens S1AS-100 Meters

furndire

We got ours 30th June 2010 - I suspect there could be quite a few more, in the same boat as us, as there were thousands of these meters installed. At least over winter we would probably have used most or all of what we produced. I will still be wanting compensation for phone calls, as they have cost me a lot of money, made lots of them - 0845 numbers - they used to have an 0800 number but changed it.

For the July, Aug, Sept - we produced 1162 KW - so that would have racked my bills by quite a lot - we were away a lot of the time, and because we thought the bills were high, my daughter turned off one of our fridges and anything else she could - but was still using 13 or 14 units a day - just her in the house.

dunloadin

Posting incorrect information is not helpful and dunloadin is simply demonstrating his lack of basic electrical knowledge on this subject by posting this completely incorrect statement:

Hmmm, been a while for you to get a dig in after the last time we had a difference of opinion.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/1874825=

As you know I don’t lack basic electrical knowledge, though I will admit to not having much experience with the type of systems involved in this case. The first instance of this type of system I have seen is the case I pointed out in post #5; as more posts are added and more info becomes available then things start to begin to make sense, that’s why I find this thread so interesting.

Our new tariff is available for householders and small businesses who export power to the electricity network generated via Solar PV panels installed on their premises. (You must take your import supply from Atlantic Electric and Gas and the generation must be connected to the grid via the property and not directly into the grid.)

The above is from the Atlantic site, and shows that not all meters are wired in series, so I wasn't that far off.

Many customers with solar PV systems do have one meter that records both imported and exported energy. If an additional separate export meter is fitted alongside the original import meter, then it is wired in series with the original meter!

A big thanks for posting the link to Loftys website, it is very informative and fills in a lot of gaps. It also shows he has three meters in total, one of which was fitted by the PV installers (the ‘Total generation meter’). The other two were fitted by the DNO, the Import and Export meter. He’s even got some pictures of them, and it’s clear that they are in series, so I’m happy to be corrected there.

If you notice the reads that he posted the import meter does not reverse when the generated electricity is more than the consumption. Vice, the export meter does not move when the consumption is higher than the load being generated.

So the meters fitted by the DNO will have been specifically set up by the DNO to only work when the flow is in the appropriate direction. These meters have obviously been fitted to Loftys system as the standard meters, as fitted to fundire, paulreeds and other setups are not up to the job.

The import and export usage is billed on a different rate per unit, to get the billing right both will require different SSC codes and MPANS, so it’s highly unlikely that one meter will be used as an import/export meter. I only know of one instance where a meter can have two MPANS, and that’s not relevant to this thread.

John_Pierpoint

MPANs - Meter Point Administration Numbers.

SSC = BBB ?

Take your pick:

[B][U]Acronym Definition[/U]: SSC[/B]Secondary School Certificate[B]SSC[/B]Standard Systems Center (USAF)[B]SSC[/B]Swedish Space Corporation[B]SSC[/B]Salem State College (Massachusetts)[B]SSC[/B]Stennis Space Center[B]SSC[/B]State Services Commission (New Zealand)[B]SSC[/B]Sector Skills Council (UK)[B]SSC[/B]Scientific Steering Committee[B]SSC[/B]Shared Service Center[B]SSC[/B]Serpentshrine Cavern (gaming, World of Warcraft)[B]SSC[/B]Systemic Sclerosis (aka Scleroderma, a connective tissue disease)[B]SSC[/B]Superconducting Super Collider[B]SSC[/B]Spread-Spectrum Clocking[B]SSC[/B]John C. Stennis Space Center (NASA)[B]SSC[/B]SPAWAR Systems Center[B]SSC[/B]Statistical Society of Canada[B]SSC[/B]Soldier Systems Center (US Army)[B]SSC[/B]Superconducting Supercollider[B]SSC[/B]State Securities Commission (Vietnam)[B]SSC[/B]Scientific and Statistical Committee[B]SSC[/B]Shelby Super Cars[B]SSC[/B]Structures, Systems, and Components (Nuclear Power)[B]SSC[/B]Surviving Sepsis Campaign[B]SSC[/B]Singapore Science Centre[B]SSC[/B]Security Subsystem Class (Trusted Computing Group Storage Working Group specification type)[B]SSC[/B]Staff Selection Commission (India)[B]SSC[/B]STEREO Science Center (NASA)[B]SSC[/B]Synchrotron Self Compton (high energy astrophysics)[B]SSC[/B]Schizophrenia Society of Canada[B]SSC[/B]Structures/Systems and Components[B]SSC[/B]Safe, Sane, Consensual[B]SSC[/B]Short Service Commission[B]SSC[/B]San Sebastian College (Manila, Philippines)[B]SSC[/B]Scientific Support Coordinator[B]SSC[/B]System Support Center (FAA)[B]SSC[/B]Society of the Holy Cross (Societas Sanctae Crucis)[B]SSC[/B]Sulfide Stress Cracking[B]SSC[/B]Soluble Solids Content[B]SSC[/B]State Security Council (RSA)[B]SSC[/B]Science Support Center[B]SSC[/B]Senior Service College[B]SSC[/B]Social Security Commission[B]SSC[/B]Species Survival Commission of IUCN[B]SSC[/B]Satellite Situation Center (NASA website)[B]SSC[/B]Super Star Cluster[B]SSC[/B]Sodium Chloride-Sodium Citrate Buffer (molecular biology reagent)[B]SSC[/B]Sanitary Service Company (Washington)[B]SSC[/B]Showroom Stock C (Sports Car Club of America)[B]SSC[/B]Ship Structure Committee (interagency maritime advisory committee)[B]SSC[/B]San Sebastian College - Recoletos[B]SSC[/B]Supply and Services Canada (Government of Canada)[B]SSC[/B]Social Source Commons[B]SSC[/B]Skyscraper Safety Campaign[B]SSC[/B]Side Scatter Characteristics[B]SSC[/B]smaller-scale contingency (military)[B]SSC[/B]Shop Service Center[B]SSC[/B]Six Sigma Certification[B]SSC[/B]Space Surveillance Center[B]SSC[/B]Sender Score Certified (trademark of Return Path, Inc.)[B]SSC[/B]Soldier Support Center[B]SSC[/B]Systems Support Center[B]SSC[/B]Siemens Stromberg-Carlson[B]SSC[/B]Scandinavian Symposium on Chemometrics[B]SSC[/B]Strategy Sub-Committee (I-GOOS)[B]SSC[/B]Special Service Center[B]SSC[/B]Seattle Sports Commission (Seattle, WA)[B]SSC[/B]Strategic Supply Chain[B]SSC[/B]Single-Site Catalyst[B]SSC[/B]Saint Stephen's College (Gold Coast, Australia)[B]SSC[/B]Soldier Systems Command[B]SSC[/B]Singhalese Sports Club (cricket club in Sri Lanka)[B]SSC[/B]Short Shameful Confession[B]SSC[/B]Scleroderma Society of Canada[B]SSC[/B]State Superfund Contracts[B]SSC[/B]Space and Science Center (NASA)[B]SSC[/B]Switch-And-Stay Combining[B]SSC[/B]Stainless Steel Carbon[B]SSC[/B]System Science Consultants, Inc.[B]SSC[/B]Source Selection Committee[B]SSC[/B]Support Service Contractor[B]SSC[/B]Small System Controller[B]SSC[/B]Saint Scholastica's College (Manila, Philippines)[B]SSC[/B]Shattered Star Confederation (game clan)[B]SSC[/B]Saxo Sports Club[B]SSC[/B]Software Support Center[B]SSC[/B]Systems, Structures, Components (nuclear)[B]SSC[/B]Ship-to-Shore Connector (US Navy)[B]SSC[/B]Seismograph Service Corporation[B]SSC[/B]Svalbard Science Centre (Norway)[B]SSC[/B]Supply Status [B]Code[/B][B]SSC[/B]Synchronous Sequential Circuit[B]SSC[/B]surveillance support center (US DoD)[B]SSC[/B]Study Site Coordinator[B]SSC[/B]SoftSwitch Controller[B]SSC[/B]Special Service [B]Code[/B][B]SSC[/B]Steel Solutions Center (AISC)[B]SSC[/B]Solicitor to the Supreme Court (Scotland)[B]SSC[/B]Secure Support Component[B]SSC[/B]Shearwater Sailing Club[B]SSC[/B]Subsystem Congestion[B]SSC[/B]Service Schools Command[B]SSC[/B]Soulshot C Grade (Lineage 2 game)[B]SSC[/B]Scrotal Safety Commission[B]SSC[/B]Support Software Change[B]SSC[/B]Space Station Complex[B]SSC[/B]State Student Conference (Hawaii; aka Secondary Student Conference)[B]SSC[/B]Standard Small Computer[B]SSC[/B]Supply Support Center[B]SSC[/B]Standish-Sterling Central (Standish, MI high school)[B]SSC[/B]Aerospatiale/British Aerospace Concorde (aircraft type [B]code[/B])[B]SSC[/B]Sandhill Soaring Club (MI, aviation)[B]SSC[/B]Seattle Scientific Corporation[B]SSC[/B]San Sisto College (Carina, QLD, Australia)[B]SSC[/B]Social Studies Club[B]SSC[/B]Systems Support Contractor[B]SSC[/B]Surface Surveillance & Control (US Navy)[B]SSC[/B]Skill Specialty [B]Code[/B][B]SSC[/B]Semi-Solid Casting[B]SSC[/B]Sea Shore [B]Code[/B] (USN)[B]SSC[/B]Swingset Champion (band)[B]SSC[/B]Scientific Support Contractor[B]SSC[/B]Structural Software Consulting[B]SSC[/B]Secondary Storage Controller (AT&T)[B]SSC[/B]Strategic Systems Committee[B]SSC[/B]Special Security Command[B]SSC[/B]Stenis Space Center (NASA)[B]SSC[/B]Synoptic Systems Corporation[B]SSC[/B]Scotian Shelf Condensate[B]SSC[/B]Supreme Student Committee[B]SSC[/B]Stock Selection Committee[B]SSC[/B]Supplementary Service [B]Code[/B] (telephony)[B]SSC[/B]Special Software Committee[B]SSC[/B]Shallow Sound Channel[B]SSC[/B]Service Specification [B]Code[/B][B]SSC[/B]Secure Site Certificate[B]SSC[/B]Subsystem Certification[B]SSC[/B]Sub-System Controller[B]SSC[/B]Sports Specialty Chemicals Inc.[B]SSC[/B]Sensitization Solar Cell[B]SSC[/B]Supply Services Controller[B]SSC[/B]Sector Service Center[B]SSC[/B]Ship Specific Configuration (US Navy)[B]SSC[/B]Switching Support Center[B]SSC[/B]Surface Search Coordinator[B]SSC[/B]Sprint Sense California[B]SSC[/B]Snowdrifters Ski Club (Saginaw, Michigan)[B]SSC[/B]Sebastopol Secondary College (Ballarat, Victoria)[B]SSC[/B]Committee on Ship Structure (National Research Council)[B]SSC[/B]Sensorless Scalar Control[B]SSC[/B]Special Selection Combining[B]SSC[/B]Systems Sales Case[B]SSC[/B]Supply and Services Complete[B]SSC[/B]Second-Stage Conduit[B]SSC[/B]Super Stream Class[B]SSC[/B]Staging Server Concept[B]SSC[/B]Safety Support Contractor[B]SSC[/B]Saudi Science Club[B]SSC[/B]Service Switch Control (Nortel)[B]SSC[/B]Franciscan Servants of the Sacred Heart (religious order)[B]SSC[/B]Space and Siting Committee[B]SSC[/B]Space Switch Card[B]SSC[/B]Surface Storage Casks[B]SSC[/B]Switching Systems Certification[B]SSC[/B]Synchronous Self-Shifting Clutch (gas turbine powered vessels)[B]SSC[/B]Subscriber Service Control (Sprint)[B]SSC[/B]Sea Surveillance Coordinator[B]SSC[/B]Stratified Squamous Carcinoma[B]SSC[/B]Statistic Scattering Centroid[B]SSC[/B]Safeguarding & Social Care (UK)[B]SSC[/B]Sensitive Service Center[B]SSC[/B]Social Senior Center[B]SSC[/B]Single-Step Convergence[B]SSC[/B]Southport Sharks Club (Queensland, Australia)[B]SSC[/B]Soul Surfing Crew (Hawaii)[B]SSC[/B]Stakeholder Sounding Committee

dunloadin

Sorry John, should have explained it a bit better, the SSC (Standard Settlement Configuration) is the tarriff code applied to the meter, it basically equates to the meter time switch code element in the MPAN.

Wiki has a good entry about MPANs, it also mentions the need for an export MPAN as well.

John_Pierpoint

Cardew wrote: »

Surely that is the old ROC scheme that was in force before the introduction of FITs last year???????

ROC = Renewable energy Certificate.
Incentives in the form of Renewables Obligation Certificates (ROCs) – place an obligation on electricity suppliers to source an increasing proportion of their electricity from renewable sources .
Is it possible that this electricity company Atlantic Electric and Gas has a web site that is over a year out of date or is it possible that this particular company has found itself between a rock and a hard place (pun intended) and has decided to try to corner part of the market in domestic generation? As it is struggling to meet the ever increasing Renewable energy Obligation being imposed on it?

Does paying out to import (be it the basic 3.1 p a unit or something higher) count towards the company's internal ROC obligation - I think it must.

http://www.lowcarboneconomy.com/userprofile/toddington/_tips_did_you_know/last_chance_to_respond_to_the_solar_fit_review_this_is_lowcarboneconomycom%27s_submission/14140

DECC’s early review has already frightened off investors, and is currently destroying the perception of the UK as a safe place for low carbon investment. Irrespective of which type of solar projects the UK Government ‘picks as the winner’, the budget will all be spent within the next 18 months, as it is insufficient to support the growth of anything but a cottage industry, because it was based on flawed predictions in the first place. When the ‘newly capped’ FIT funds are used up, the industry will collapse. To prevent this happening, the FIT and ROC budgets need to be merged immediately, the FIT rates for all bands reduced by 25%, and for all size projects up to 5MWp to become financially viable again.

This is the only course of action to prevent an inevitable boom and bust scenario in the solar industry, and to support the growth of such a popular and beneficial low carbon renewable energy technology in the UK.

Cardew

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

Is it possible that this electricity company Atlantic Electric and Gas has a web site that is over a year out of date

Yes!!

I can't think of any other plausible explanation

Doc_N

furndire wrote: »

I will still be wanting compensation for phone calls, as they have cost me a lot of money, made lots of them - 0845 numbers - they used to have an 0800 number but changed it.

Just a tiny, non-related point, Furndire - and please slap me down if I'm teaching granny to suck eggs - but do you know about http://www.saynoto0870.com/ ? Several alternatives listed to avoid Atlantic's 0845 number, including some 0800s.

furndire

Blast, I forgot about that aggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh They still show the 0800 number on saynoto !!!!!!!!!!!! (not been verified- it will be tomorrow) and thats a [STRIKE]little[/STRIKE] big blue cloud shadowing my solar panels.

furndire

Rung Atlantic again today to tell them to make sure that they send someone equipped to do the job. No joy, they are still sending someone to fit a check meter - which will be left for about 3 weeks . I did specifically say that I did not want them just changing the meter. Surely I can't be their first customer with this problem.

Does anyone think this will pick up on the problem?

My thinking is that it will not. If the meter is fitted in line with the one already there, will it not just record everything going through the meter, not spliting between the export & import.
I am sure they still think I am stupid, and don't know what I am talking about.

Thanks Doc N, at least it was an hour on an 0800 number today. The one thing I forgot to do was record my phone call - probably would have run out of recording time anyway.

By the time this is sorted, it will be nearly a year - panels fitted end of June, 2010

As soon as this is sorted, I am changing Electric Suppliers - I was going to change earlier this year, and had a problem trying to register the meter number (therein lies another story). I couldn't get through a cashback site as they are all sort of automated.

ChrisJD

furndire wrote: »

Rung Atlantic again today to tell them to make sure that they send someone equipped to do the job. No joy, they are still sending someone to fit a check meter - which will be left for about 3 weeks . I did specifically say that I did not want them just changing the meter. Surely I can't be their first customer with this problem.

Does anyone think this will pick up on the problem?

My thinking is that it will not. If the meter is fitted in line with the one already there, will it not just record everything going through the meter, not spliting between the export & import.
I am sure they still think I am stupid, and don't know what I am talking about.

Naturally, if they use a meter which is set up identically to yours, then they will show the same. If they have any sense (which is questionable), the check meter should be different, and should only record actual consumption (being, or behaving like, a mechanical meter with a ratchet), thus the two meters will differ at the end of the test period.

I absolutely agree that it is so frustrating when the person representing the company is unable to understand the situation, and therefore dismisses your information out of hand. In your position I would have been tempted to insist that I be permitted to speak to someone whose technical knowledge was adequate for them to understand the situation. I find it hard to believe that a competent engineer would insist on an expensive test period, when all they have to do is interrogate the existing meter.