Tenants and access issues!!

bluenoseneil

My partner and I are currently living in a Ground Floor flat which forms part of a house. We have an elderly lady living above us in the First Floor flat, and she shares a front entrance with us to her separate front door.

Our garden sweeps around the side of the property to the rear, where we have a parking space. The other tenant also has a parking space at the rear, and her garden is behind this. There is access to her parking space and garden by walking through the shared driveway from either the road (which involves going out the front door, around the corner and back in again) or straight down the path adjacent to our garden.

The issue has arisen that this Tenant feels that she has a right to use this pathway as she has always done so, yet it is not written into either Tenancy Agreement. We have had it verbally confirmed that the garden is for our exclusive use.

There is therefore a grey area.

We have technically no issue with her walking down the path and through our portion of the garden to get to HER garden or the car. What we do have an issue with is her doing this whilst we are using the garden (sunbathing, BBQ, entertaining etc) when we consider it downright rude, especially when it literally takes no longer to go out the front gate and around. We are surprised she isn't more embarrassed and would do it anyway!!

On more than a few occasions this has happened now, and it came to a head a few weeks ago when we were looking after a friends children. My car was parked in our driveway and to get to her garden she comes down the path and past my car. I was getting the kids into the car so 2 of the doors were open. She chose to push my car door shut onto me and said "I need to get past". When I suggested she COULD go round, I then got abuse that she had rights and was going to call her Solicitor.

Sure enough, we have received a letter informing us that in the 44 years she has been a Tenant she has never had an issue with accessing the parking space or garden that is hers and she will take legal action if we take it further.

She seems to have missed the point. We DON'T have issue with it for 95% of the time, except when it is clearly inappropriate.

Where do we stand? For one, she has ignored speaking to or writing directly to the Landlord to ask him for advise or clarification, which I think is utterly wrong. We are still awaiting a call back from him to confirm the position. She is a Sitting Tenant and therefore we (and the Landlord) have to be careful what is said due to long standing rights.

As far as I can tell from web research I believe the Tenant lady technically needs a Prescriptive Right Of Way agreed by the Landlord in writing to cross our portion of the garden on the path to access her car and garden. Otherwise technically she should go around on the public pathway and back in through the side gate to her car and garden. I don't really want to get this petty about it but I don't want solicitors letters sent to me when a simple reconciliation and understanding of the situation would have sufficed, but I am ready to take off the gloves if I need to!!

Can anyone offer advice please?

At the end of the day I could be saving this poor lady from seeing me in the altogether on one of my sunbathing sessions...haha only kidding!!

silvercar

Download her deeds from the landregistry site and see what rights she has.

bluenoseneil

As she is a Tenant I would imagine that's not possible. Is that right Silvercar?

mchale

I think her being a tenant for 44 yrs and presumably using the right of way for that length of time she has rights, I can recall a law that if anyone used a right of way for more than 21 yrs without it being challenged then it was deemed as established, although that was many years ago so the law may well have changed by now, maybe someone will come along and clarify it better.

DVardysShadow

Dear <solicitor>

In reply to your letter of <date>, we have been advised that we have exclusive use of the garden over which your client is claiming rights and you should understand that your client has access to her own parking place and garden without needing to go through our garden.

You should be advised that your client's complaint came to a head a few weeks ago when we were looking after a friend's children. My car was parked in our driveway and to get to her garden she came down the path and past my car. I was getting the kids into the car so 2 of the doors were open. She chose to push my car door shut onto me.

The matter of our exclusive use of the garden has been referred to the Landlord. However, your client, in pushing my car door on to me while putting children into the car is asserting that her rights override our basic rights of use of the property we rent.

Perhaps you would instruct your client in basic manners and charge her accordingly.

Yours

Blue Nose Neil

bluenoseneil

Thanks so much for this letter, it's excellent and essentially illustrates our point that (a) she HAS choices to walk around and doesn't exercise it, (b) she was confrontational and abusive when being asked to do so and (c) we need to clarify the position with the Landlord if only to ensure everyone knows where they are.

I will say also during the confrontation not only were the car doors closed on me AND she was aggressive and overly assertive of her rights in front of 3 children (all under 12 in age....so inappropriate) but we were also treated to statements like "I have lived here for 44 years and never had a problem with other tenants, why should I change now?", "you are only on a six month lease" (which is not true and she has NO idea how long we intend to stay) and the classic (and totally irrelevant) "I am old enough to be your Mother"!!

Are we treading on dangerous ground with this lady as a Sitting Tenant?

DVardysShadow

bluenoseneil wrote: »

... Are we treading on dangerous ground with this lady as a Sitting Tenant?

As sitting tenant, her enhanced rights only extend to security of tenure, which is only in relation to the Landlord. This gives her no rights over you beyond the rights any other tenant would have. But her length of time in the property may have given her rights of way as has already been mentioned. But these rights do not supercede your rights to use the property.

bluenoseneil

No I am not Scottish, and don't live in Scotland.

Bluenose has no relation to Glasgow Rangers for me!!

Errata

It may be that after 44 years of using this way of access to her garden withouth protest the tenant of the upstairs flat has established a right of way.

poppysarah

If you are a tenant then I would give notice to the landlord and find somewhere else to live. *accepting you may have to wait a few months.

I wouldn't want to live next to someone like that - " She chose to push my car door shut onto me and said "I need to get past"." This is incredible rude and arrogant.

Yorkie1

I would also add a bit into the letter that pushing the door shut onto you is a criminal assault ... not just bad manners.