Pregnant with 1st baby. Do we get anything? what about the £190 grant?

gauly

DeeMarie89 wrote: »

Funny, because when my husband and I earned 14k between us, we most certainly did not have more than 40k coming in!

Just for interest I did the maths on this, but I've cheated a bit and used an income of £43k because that is the point next year where you will lose Child Benefit so the income on £43k is less than on £40k.

Income on £43k with 4 children (from next april):
After tax/NI £31,459
Benefits: £0
Total income £31,459

Income on 2x£7k with 4 children:
After tax/NI £14,000
Working tax credit: £760
Child tax credit: £11,495
Child benefit: £3,146
Council tax benefit: ??
Housing benefit: ??
Total income £29,401+

Hope these values are right - I got them from an online calculator. It really is weirdly close even before you add in housing and council tax benefit if they are.

zagfles

diolch wrote: »

Sorry go check the tax law as it was then.

Child tax allowances were given through the code number, but higher rate taxpayers had it clawed back.

That only applied to the Children's Tax Credit which only ran from 2001-2003. It never applied to any other tax allowances, ever.

Secondly, the married person's allowance had nothing to do with children, that was to do with the extra responsibilities of being married. Something not many choose to do now!

Besides, that relief was also clawed back for higher rate taxpayers.

No it wasn't. The married couples' allowance and the additional personal allowance were never clawed backed however high your income was. In the later years relief was restricted to a rate, so it'd be worth the same to a higher rate tax payer as to basic rate payer. But someone on 1,000,000 still ended up with the same benefit as someone on 10,000.

And talking about tax rates. the max now is 40% apart from the very rich - they pay 50%

The max rate has been 40% since 1988 (till 2010).

The max rate between about 1980 and 1988 was 60%

In my day the tax rates went up to the equivalent of 75% for ordinary taxpayers and those with investment income as well saw there tax rates go to 95%!!

So "your day" was before 1980 then. In which case you'd have had child tax allowances which were not clawed back whatever your tax rate.

And this was at a time when mortgage interest was running at 15%.

So now you're talking early 90's? "Your day" seems to have moved around quite a lot. :rotfl:

sarflee

This thread just gives a small insight into what an extremely difficult job it is to get the benefits system fair, everybody's vision of fair is different from the next and some are absolutely poles apart. What does seem to be coming across to me is, people on a lower income think it's bordering disgusting that someone on a middle income expects anything at all from the government, those on a lower income feel it is almost their right to be on a similar income to those earning middle incomes via benefits (which I personally think is what Gordon Brown tried to achieve) and those on a middle income are fed up with the amounts that can be claimed and constantly being told that they have plenty to live off.

Me personally, 2 children, on the middle income bracket (only because company car is classed as an income and between us we have 4 jobs and work 84hrs) Think the new tax credits limits are better than the old and will be even better when the next limits are introduced, have no problem with help for families but think benefits for children should be capped to 3 children max.

clemmatis

fawd1 wrote: »

Assuming then that you're not in your 60's (where the grants loans system was completely different i.e. virtually nonexistant)

It was very different then, and for some years later. Far fewer people went to university, and though there were grants, they were heavily means-tested, and there was no student loans system. And then, people who failed the 11+ or who passed but were not able to go to grammar school (for family reasons) just had to forget about university etc..

(I knew people whose parents would not let them go to grammar school. I also had a friend who failed the 11+ who got a paid place at a grammar school, and went to university.)

gauly, the 2x 7k family will get those benefits for a limited number of years. I do think the tax credit change was poorly thought through, by the way.

sarflee, I just saw your post. Yes I think it does show how difficult it is to get benefits right.

sarflee

gauly wrote: »

Just for interest I did the maths on this, but I've cheated a bit and used an income of £43k because that is the point next year where you will lose Child Benefit so the income on £43k is less than on £40k.

Income on £43k with 4 children (from next april):
After tax/NI £31,459
Benefits: £0
Total income £31,459

Income on 2x£7k with 4 children:
After tax/NI £14,000
Working tax credit: £760
Child tax credit: £11,495
Child benefit: £3,146
Council tax benefit: ??
Housing benefit: ??
Total income £29,401+

Hope these values are right - I got them from an online calculator. It really is weirdly close even before you add in housing and council tax benefit if they are.

You've missed out free prescriptions, free glasses/opticians, free dental, help with vets fees, claim travel back for prison visits (hopefully not needed), travel to hospital, warmfront grants and I'm sure there is more!!

fannyanna

I haven't read all the responses as there's a lot but I got as fair as the debate about who should and who shouldn't get child related benefits.

I can see both sides of the argument. Looking at both (perhaps stereotypical extremes) sides.....

Someone working and earning a large salary will have all their bills to pay. A fair chunk of what they pay out will be their mortgage or rent. As they wont be entitled to tax credits they'd need to return to work and be able to afford child care. Now in my area on a full time basis a nursery place will easily cost you £1,000. So I think it's fair to say this person will really need to think about how they can afford to have a child.

You then have someone who lives off benefits. Whilst their income is low their outgoings are equally low. The state pays for what is most peoples major expsense - their home. Having a child would mean that they're entitled to tax credits and they would not have the expense of child care as they could continue to live off benefits.

Now obviously there's a lot of scenarios in between but you really would need to look at each case seperately. It's not exactly a one size fits all world - which I think is the main problem with our welfare system (which I don't pretend to know a lot about).

fannyanna

gauly wrote: »

Just for interest I did the maths on this, but I've cheated a bit and used an income of £43k because that is the point next year where you will lose Child Benefit so the income on £43k is less than on £40k.

Income on £43k with 4 children (from next april):
After tax/NI £31,459
Benefits: £0
Total income £31,459

Income on 2x£7k with 4 children:
After tax/NI £14,000
Working tax credit: £760
Child tax credit: £11,495
Child benefit: £3,146
Council tax benefit: ??
Housing benefit: ??
Total income £29,401+

Hope these values are right - I got them from an online calculator. It really is weirdly close even before you add in housing and council tax benefit if they are.

Wow, just seen this. I'm going to give up my job and have a few kids - JOKE :rotfl:

Blue22

sarflee wrote: »

This thread just gives a small insight into what an extremely difficult job it is to get the benefits system fair, everybody's vision of fair is different from the next and some are absolutely poles apart. What does seem to be coming across to me is, people on a lower income think it's bordering disgusting that someone on a middle income expects anything at all from the government, those on a lower income feel it is almost their right to be on a similar income to those earning middle incomes via benefits (which I personally think is what Gordon Brown tried to achieve) and those on a middle income are fed up with the amounts that can be claimed and constantly being told that they have plenty to live off.
.

I agree with most of your post but have to disagree that it was Gordon Brown, or Labour who are the polital party that want us all to be equal. Middle income households, ie approx 20k to 40k, were treated more favourably under Labour than under the current government. The same was true in the 80s under Mrs Thatcher, middle income families suffered the most.

shop-to-drop

gauly wrote: »

Just for interest I did the maths on this, but I've cheated a bit and used an income of £43k because that is the point next year where you will lose Child Benefit so the income on £43k is less than on £40k.

Income on £43k with 4 children (from next april):
After tax/NI £31,459
Benefits: £0
Total income £31,459

Income on 2x£7k with 4 children:
After tax/NI £14,000
Working tax credit: £760
Child tax credit: £11,495
Child benefit: £3,146
Council tax benefit: ??
Housing benefit: ??
Total income £29,401+

Hope these values are right - I got them from an online calculator. It really is weirdly close even before you add in housing and council tax benefit if they are.

Plus free school meals alone is worth another £40 each week.

The low income family are without a doubt much better off as housing benefit/council tax benefit and all extras are worth a considerable amount. It is also not unreasonable for the family with one high income to not be able to increase that income by the second parent working as quite usually in order to get a job like that the family need to move to where the work is away from extended family support. They will also not get any help with childcare. Also the high paid job can often require working into the evenings and trips away overnight so working evenings or nights may not be an option.

melly1980

gauly wrote: »

Just for interest I did the maths on this, but I've cheated a bit and used an income of £43k because that is the point next year where you will lose Child Benefit so the income on £43k is less than on £40k.

Income on £43k with 4 children (from next april):
After tax/NI £31,459
Benefits: £0
Total income £31,459

Income on 2x£7k with 4 children:
After tax/NI £14,000
Working tax credit: £760
Child tax credit: £11,495
Child benefit: £3,146
Council tax benefit: ??
Housing benefit: ??
Total income £29,401+

Hope these values are right - I got them from an online calculator. It really is weirdly close even before you add in housing and council tax benefit if they are.

no no no you have it all wrong.

Us 40K earners are much richer and we only dont have any left because we spend it all on 4x4's and paying the mortgage on a contry mannor :rotfl: