Excessive metered water bills from Southern Water

foxyruby

Hi Moneysavers

I'm getting really desperate about my water bills and wonder if any of you would be able to help me? I got the key to my small 2-bed city flat (it's in a block of 16 flats) on the Sussex seafront in September 2007, but didn't move in until mid-December 2007 so the flat was unoccupied for three months. I live on my own and for at least 2-3 days during the week I am visiting clients and not at home. I have no garden, not even a windowbox, and no dishwasher. There is no parking outside so I can't wash my car, I have to go to a car wash for that. I do 1 or 2 loads of washing a week. I am very careful about how I use water and turn off the tap while brushing my teeth, etc.

There is a water meter outside in the street under a very heavy manhole cover, along with the meters for the other flats. My first water bill from Sept 2007 to Feb 2008 was £383.59. I said for one person for two months? No way! It took two months of struggle, and two subsequent visits from a water inspector, to work out which meter was mine and to ascertain that the meter had been read incorrectly. Charges for Sept 2007 to April 2008 were revised to £82.38.

However, half-yearly charges since then have crept up again enormously:
To 10.9.2008: £138.76
To 10.3.2009: £145.82
To 11.9.2009: £186.09
To 2.3.2010: £241.64
To 9.9.2010: £252.03
My situation and usage haven't changed at all. I still live on my own and nothing has changed except the bills. Each half-year I have gone outside and with the help of a friend have lifted the manhole cover and checked the reading. Apart from the first time, the reading on the meter has roughly matched the reading on the bill. But I know it can't be correct, because I'm paying double what other people I know in the area are paying, and a lot more even than 4-person families in houses with gardens.

I have complained each time to Southern Water. They eventually sent an inspector round a couple of times, who initially identified the minutest trickle from my toilet and said that was the problem. I had the trickle fixed (although the plumber said that would have used only about a pint a day), but still my bills grew higher, even though the inspector has revisited and confirmed there is no longer any leak anywhere in my home. Eventually I got the Consumer Council for Water involved. The man there was very helpful at first, but Southern Water seemed to take it personally that I had contacted the CCW and from the way they spoke to me - and to the man from the CCW - I started to feel it had become an 'agenda' for them. After months of to-ing and fro-ing, and after making me knock on all the residents' doors asking them to run their taps while I looked at meters outside (something I later learned Southern Water should have done, not me), in the end they agreed to take out my water meter and have it tested, and would put a new one in its place. They subsequently sent me the test result from Itron Metering Solutions in Manchester, which said the old meter was 'found to be within the limits specified in the Cold Water Regulations 1988'. They have therefore insisted that the charges are correct (£493.67 for last year alone). I paid a proportion of this because I don't expect to get my water for nothing, but they have just threatened me with solicitors if I don't pay the rest (£326.01). The Consumer Council for Water have now lost interest, and told me if I want to take it further then perhaps I should try my MP or local councillor. They said I can't switch back to a fixed charge either (which I wish I could do! It's only a fraction of what I'm being charged on a meter).

I've asked the CCW to let me know what type of meter was fitted on 24.1.11. Is it a remote-controlled one? Does it have the ability to reveal if there's a water leak (apparently some new ones can, according to a local newspaper). Can I wait to see what my next bill is and then if it's a lot lower then maybe get a rebate on the previous bill? The CCW man has clearly lost interest but agreed he will at least try to find out what kind of meter I now have, but nothing else.

I rang Consumer Direct today (ex-OFT). The woman wasn't very helpful. She kept telling me to switch providers, even though I said I don't think that's possible. She insisted it was. I've searched the net but can't find anything. Is it possible now?

I'm now desperate folks! I'm sorry for the long post, but I thought it was best to give you all the facts. If any of you Moneysavers have any ideas I would be so grateful to receive them, because my water bills are much higher even than my gas heating bills and I've learned to dread them

I look forward to receiving any ideas you may have, and many thanks to you all.

Gothicfairy

ouch..sorry but that block of text just hurt my brain.

I will try and go through some ideas and advice based on what I think might be the issue but please correct me if I am wrong.

OK First..No you can not change providers at all.....it is not possible in any way shape or form.

Second, are you sure that the readings are correct ? and that each bill has the right MSN (meter serial number) ?

There will be no "agenda" as they don't care about you one way or the other . They have an agreed profit amount this year and your issue will make no difference, they also do not care if anyone goes to the CCW as the agents are just paid to do their job and the head people at each water company are use to a certain amount of complaints.

If the meter has been tested and found to be working then that would remove that problem ( it is not done through the water company and again it makes no difference to their profit if it works ok or not) but it might be that either you have a leak or that they are still reading the wrong meter.
They should indeed flow test all flats but it is damn hard to make appointments for all and to do the job so to be honest I would expect them to leave that part down to the customer anyway.

Thing is, to really help you we need Cubic meter usage rather then bill amounts.
Can you please give us the meter readings from those bills and if you checked them to see they were right and also where they from your meter.

moonrakerz

foxyruby wrote: »

I rang Consumer Direct today (ex-OFT). The woman wasn't very helpful. She kept telling me to switch providers, even though I said I don't think that's possible. She insisted it was.

To be told this by a so-called consumer advice organisation (government sponsored - to boot !) is just shameful !!!!!!

Cardew

When you are away 'for at least 2-3 days during the week I am visiting clients and not at home' you should carefully note your meter reading before you go, and check it again as soon as you return. That way you will determine if you have a leak.

The other possibility with blocks of flats is the the plumbers got it wrong during building/conversion and your meter is supplying another flat as well as yours!

foxyruby

Hi Gothicfairy

Okay, this is a summary from Southern Water saying what I've used:

13.9.07 to 17.4.08: 18 cu m in 217 days (average daily use: 0.083 cu m)
17.4.08 to 10.9.08: 64 cu m in 146 days (average daily use: 0.438 cu m)
10.9.08 to 10.3.09: 46 cu m in 181 days (average daily use: 0.254 cu m)
10.3.09 to 11.9.09: 60 cu m in 185 days (average daily use: 0.324 cu m)
11.9.09 to 2.3.10: 83 cu m in 172 days (average daily use: 0.483 cu m)
2.3.10 to 26.4.10: 23 cu m in 55 days (average daily use: 0.418 cu m)
26.4.10 to 9.9.10: 60 cu m in 136 days (average daily use: 0.441 cu m)

I've checked each bill against my meter reading and it's correct in terms of reading and serial number. I've also had a friend turn taps on and off while I check my meter and it's definitely the right meter.

foxyruby

Cardew wrote: »

When you are away 'for at least 2-3 days during the week I am visiting clients and not at home' you should carefully note your meter reading before you go, and check it again as soon as you return. That way you will determine if you have a leak.

The other possibility with blocks of flats is the the plumbers got it wrong during building/conversion and your meter is supplying another flat as well as yours!

Eeek! I've tested and confirmed that my meter is serving my flat, but that's the first time that anyone's mentioned the possibility that my meter could be serving someone else's flat as well as my own! When I said I'm out visiting clients for 2-3 days per week, I'm only out during the day, I'm not away completely, but the next time I go away completely for a couple of days I'll definitely check my meter reading before I go and then when I come back. This is a great idea and I'll look into it - thanks very much!

foxyruby

Hi again Cardew
I've been thinking more about your idea. Apologies if this comes across as a really thick question, but I know very little about plumbing! Would it be possible for plumbers to hook up, say, the sewage system of a different flat to my meter, but not the taps, so that if someone ran a tap test in a different flat to see if it affected my meter it wouldn't show up, but if someone flushed the toilet in that flat it would?

Cardew

foxyruby wrote: »

Hi again Cardew
I've been thinking more about your idea. Apologies if this comes across as a really thick question, but I know very little about plumbing! Would it be possible for plumbers to hook up, say, the sewage system of a different flat to my meter, but not the taps, so that if someone ran a tap test in a different flat to see if it affected my meter it wouldn't show up, but if someone flushed the toilet in that flat it would?

Yes it would.

The mains water pipe should run straight from your meter to your flat. After it enters your flat it 'branches out' to the various outlets - taps, shower, toilets, washing machine, dishwasher etc.

Although unlikely, it could be that a 'branch' goes to another flat. When you are away, if you shut off the stopc0ck where the water enters your flat, that will cut off the supply.

If the supply goes to another flat before it enters your flat, it won't help to shut off your stopc0ck.

I would re-iterate that this is something of a long shot, but not unknown - particularly with conversions. However you are using over double the UK average of water consumption(around 140 cubic metres a year) and it can't be a leak - so you are clutching at straws!

foxyruby

Cardew wrote: »

Yes it would.

The mains water pipe should run straight from your meter to your flat. After it enters your flat it 'branches out' to the various outlets - taps, shower, toilets, washing machine, dishwasher etc.

Although unlikely, it could be that a 'branch' goes to another flat. When you are away, if you shut off the stopc0ck where the water enters your flat, that will cut off the supply.

If the supply goes to another flat before it enters your flat, it won't help to shut off your stopc0ck.

I would re-iterate that this is something of a long shot, but not unknown - particularly with conversions. However you are using over double the UK average of water consumption(around 140 cubic metres a year) and it can't be a leak - so you are clutching at straws!

That is really interesting! Thank you for your very helpful reply. I will definitely take some readings next time I'm away. Like you say, it's a long shot, but it's definitely worth pursuing.

If anyone else has any ideas, I'd be very grateful to receive them. Also, I've lost track of the latest news on deregulation of the water industry. Is that likely to happen anytime soon? If any industry is sorely in need of fair competition, it must be this one!

Gothicfairy

Deregulation is still plenty of years off as the work involved is massive.

Your ADC (average daily consumption) is high at 0.4 > I would expect to see that from a house with a family but it seems steady and consistant which would make me wonder about something in your flat. Do you have a washing machine or dish washer ? Are they old ? Could one be over filling ?
check those out as well.

Cardew is right, it could be that you are supplying someone else ( I would say probably not as it would normally be supplying the whole place rather then just a toilet say, but that does not mean it can't happen) I would turn your supply off when you are out during the day and then when you return home go door knocking and ask in the sweetest voice possible something like " I have been out to work all day and come home to no water, what have I missed ? do you have water ? Is it the water companies fault " etc etc and see if anyone say's "oh you too, I got no water either"..then you might have the answer

foxyruby

Gothicfairy wrote: »

Deregulation is still plenty of years off as the work involved is massive.

Your ADC (average daily consumption) is high at 0.4 > I would expect to see that from a house with a family but it seems steady and consistant which would make me wonder about something in your flat. Do you have a washing machine or dish washer ? Are they old ? Could one be over filling ?
check those out as well.

Cardew is right, it could be that you are supplying someone else ( I would say probably not as it would normally be supplying the whole place rather then just a toilet say, but that does not mean it can't happen) I would turn your supply off when you are out during the day and then when you return home go door knocking and ask in the sweetest voice possible something like " I have been out to work all day and come home to no water, what have I missed ? do you have water ? Is it the water companies fault " etc etc and see if anyone say's "oh you too, I got no water either"..then you might have the answer

Another great idea! Thanks Gothicfairy! I will try your idea out too! :-)