Installing spot lighting

LionKing

Hi,

How difficult is it to install spot lighting. I currently have a stand light bulb wiring installation in the middle of the ceiling. How do you wire the spot lights at the different corners of the room without ripping out the ceiling to wire??

How much would an electrician typically charge?

Thanks

anskills

if you mean halogen downlighters, its very easy to do mate, especially if you have access into the roof void above, i.e. the room is on the top floor. also its easiest to leave the existing switch to control them but maybe put a dimmer on instead.

firstly, isolate the breaker for the lighting circuit.

next do a bit of investigating and make rough marks where you wish the lights to be, then make sure you are not going to drill into a joist (or even any other lighting or power wiring) by using a thin screwdriver (assuming you have plasterboard ceilings) to make a hole. next poke a bit of long wire up through the insulation and see if you are close to a joint.......... hopefully not. the you can accurately space out and cut holes with a drill and hole cutter using your findings. (patch smale investigative holes with filler)

take the existing light fitting and associated out. (hole will need patched up or plastered over)

get into the ceiling and move the existing wiring, 1.5mm twin and earth i would assume, to the nearest point/hole where there is a light to be and drop it down the hole to mark it. next cut single lengths of twin and earth cable to reach to the next light postion from the first, then the next etc, in a loop-in fashion til they all have two bits of twin and earth going and leaving each fitting.

then drop each cabling down each hole and connect up from the underside. twist the earths together and tape securely. the fittings have a metal lever which holds them in place, just push them up.

cut away a 30cm diameter hole in the insulation round each fitting, especially if using 50W bulbs to allow heat to dissipate and get some cool air around the fitting.

switch on the breaker and turn them on

robnye

when i recently had work done by an electrician, i was talking with him about downlighters

he said the recommendation is to have something called a 'fire cap' over the top/back of the light, this is a standard fire safety recommendation, puts cost up by approx £25 per light.........

anskills

personally i would not go to extreme lengths of fire protecting each fitting. i would just make sure there is more than enough of a gap in the insulation around the fitting.

as i say thats just me........... and 99.9% of everyone that installs downlighters

LionKing

Cheers Anskills!

How messy a job will it be for rooms on the ground floor?

Where is the best place to buy good quality downlights (B&Q?). How much would you expect a sparky to charge for fitting?

Thanks

YorkshireBoy

Attention "anskills"

With respect, I have some major issues with the advice you are giving here.

anskills wrote:

...firstly, isolate the breaker for the lighting circuit.

Best advice for "Joe Public" when changing any component of the system is to SWITCH OFF AT THE MAIN SWITCH.

This is in case of errors on the consumer unit labelling, especially with more than one lighting circuit or when working, for example, on the landing light where one would not necessarily know if the circuit was supplied from the downstairs or upstairs lighting system.

anskills wrote:

...twist the earths together and tape securely.

If you're an electrician you should be ashamed of yourself for suggesting this. If you're not an electrician, you should not be giving installation advice on this board!

By the way, how can you tape something securely? By applying additional adhesive to the tape, or by fastening some string around it and tying it in a bow perhaps!

At this point I'll refer you to the IEE Wiring Regulations (BS7671), and specifically to the erection of equipment in electrical installations:

Regulation 133-01-01
Good workmanship and proper materials shall be used.

Regulation 133-01-04
Every electrical joint and connection shall be of proper construction as regards conductance, insulation, mechanical strength and protection.

anskills wrote:

...switch on the breaker and turn them on.

The work the OP is wanting to carry out falls into the infamous Building Regs Part P situation, and therefore should be inspected, verified, and certified by a competent person (local authority or other registered NICEIC company)

HTH
YB IEng, MIIE (with a HNC and 16th edition certified)

anskills

yeah fair points to the letter of the law ill agree and i wont argue with you as im not IEng or CIBSE qualified yet until i have done my degree. ok so i should have pointed out to check that the lighting circuit was dead in said room before starting or even isolate all lighting circuits. isolating the whole board may not be of use to him if he has a corded drill. also by securely i meant twist then tightly wrap the earths with insulating tape.

Im an M&E consultant and am more than happy with this installation and sort of work that i carry out in my and friends houses. I will clerk jobs thoroughly when on buildings site and make sure all instals are to wiring regs but i exercise a bit more leniency when doing my own stuff.

at the end of the day in principal its all correct but i wouldnt expect anyone to take stuff 100% from a message board, merely use it as a reference guide to gain a rough knowledge of what your doing or getting done for you. i would follow it up with further research and speak to experienced electricians or whoever

i would need to check but im fairly sure that part P regs does not apply to scotland but yes ideally if you are not competent or confident you should get an approved electrician to check it over

anskills

LionKing wrote:

Cheers Anskills!

How messy a job will it be for rooms on the ground floor?

Where is the best place to buy good quality downlights (B&Q?). How much would you expect a sparky to charge for fitting?

Thanks

ground floor rooms would need floor boards to be lifted in strategic positions and more than likely holes bored in joists

i have bought chrome 50w 230v downlighters from B&Q before for about £25 for 5 if i remember rightly

i would advise you get an electrician to do it but i honestly couldnt comment on prices due to regional variations etc

rizla01

Hi,

I think it is assumed that you will be installing MAINS voltage halogen D/lighters and not 12v (low voltage). If low voltage you will need to ensure that the transformer obtained is 'Dimmable'.

Also, something that may be of use is what I have recently carried out in a flat that I converted.

Unable to get to the floorboards above the ceiling i installed a false ceiling of tongue n groove white cladding from Wickes (very cheap). This enabled me to install the lighting where I wanted it and all of the wiring and it took me an afternoon to complete (5 Hours actually).

This might make things easier and from the comments i've had, looks excellent.


Riz

YorkshireBoy

anskills wrote:

...im not IEng or CIBSE qualified yet until i have done my degree.

You don't need a degree to obtain IEng registration with the Engineering Council. Admittance may be by experience (preferably in a supervisory role) and "lesser" (than degree) qualifications, eg HNC/HND. You are then interviewed by a panel of existing Incorporated (or Chartered) engineers.

anskills wrote:

...also by securely i meant twist then tightly wrap the earths with insulating tape.

You haven't got the message here so I'll shout IT'S SIMPLY NOT ALLOWED! The only 'suitable' (refer to reg 133-01-04) connections are proprietry BS and CE marked bakelite junction boxes or the wiring accessory itself.

anskills wrote:

...but i exercise a bit more leniency when doing my own stuff.

This is precisely why Part P was introduced. How can you exercise "leniency" when someones property, children's lives, and financial security (ie when insurance is voided due to non-compliance with Part P) are involved?

anskills wrote:

...at the end of the day in principal its all correct...

No its not, for the reasons I have given in both this, and my earlier post.

anskills wrote:

...i wouldnt expect anyone to take stuff 100% from a message board...

You were giving step-by-step INSTRUCTIONS, let alone advice, for goodness sake.

anskills wrote:

...merely use it as a reference guide to gain a rough knowledge of what your doing...

"Rough Knowledge" KILLS.

Could I respectfully request that you try and bear in mind my comments when responding to future posts.

anskills

dude, goin bile yer heed