provident agents [TEXT DELETED BY FORUM TEAM]

Lozzal

bashtheagents wrote: »

Not a good idea to reveal your identity ?

I didn't reveal my identity. [TEXT DELETED BY FORUM TEAM] the Provident HR personal from head office who sent the reply I copied and pasted.
I sent head office a letter stating my disgust at their treatment of us agents. I have also emailed watchdog and the Daily Mirror asking them both to investigate as I think the more of us who make a stand against these bully boy tactics of provi, the more chance we have of getting them to stop these thefts from our commision.
Provi have done themselves no favours with this latest stint and the resulting bad publicity. I hope they get theirs when they are investigated by the media, Watchdog and the Inland Revenue.

teamspirit

demoralised wrote: »

Re; contacting the inland revenue, you do realise that at least half if not more will lose their jobs, we will be paid minimum wage,and I am sure the majority of us earn more than that, even with these unfair fines, you will be unable to offset petrol, car costs etc. against tax, and will pay higher national insurance,you will also lose what flexability you do have re when you collect, and will probably be expected to go to office daily. Be very careful what you wish for it may come true.We must fight these fines , but not that way.

Im going to put my head above the parapet here and run the risk of upsetting some on here. Im with you on this one demoralised. If i was employed on minimum wage for the hours i do each week i would take a massive paycut. im all for fighting these charges but have no desire to change my employment status.

firebladechick

Here's one for you I've been informed by several people on tonight's round that even if you are self employed you are entitled to holiday pay. Wonder if you can have a claim backdated?????!!!!!

Looney_tunes

dennis-the-menace wrote: »

just come on board to say hello to all you hard working people at provident/greenwoods you know who you are and a special shout out to the wet one and the welsh one, anyway after a hard days graft im off for a long deep soak in the bath, and a cold beer.
cheers y,all and toodle pip

Your greetings to the hard workers is acknowledged, but would be more appreciated with a cup of tea and some choccy digestives.

purplepunto

I found this on HMRC website. Could be interesting -

If the answer is 'Yes' to all of the following questions, it will usually mean that the worker is self-employed:

• Can they hire someone to do the work or engage helpers at their own expense?
• Do they risk their own money?
• Do they provide the main items of equipment they need to do their job, not just the small tools that many employees provide for themselves?
• Do they agree to do a job for a fixed price regardless of how long the job may take?
• Can they decide what work to do, how and when to do the work and where to provide the services?
• Do they regularly work for a number of different people?
• Do they have to correct unsatisfactory work in their own time and at their own expense?

Any ideas?

Scoobyagent

Just balanced 11.pm.Totally demorilised, 100 down in one week.Every agent i speak to is p.....d off.Dont know where they get n75% agents happy.Looking for new job,vacancies in poll tax collecting,better paid & employed:j

frederick_smith

WARNING THIS IS A LONG POST BUT NEEDS TO BE READ
Okay time for the moaning to finish folks and time for a bit of action.
The deductions for these penalties would be unlawful should you be an employee however as you are deemed “self employed” by Provident then this is okay by them according to the Agents Agreement which you should have all been supplied with. So where do we go from here? :
1) Agents have local meetings (not in the office and strictly agents only) and gain a consensus that you have a majority of Agents who are against the new Scheme. Record when you had the meeting (for your own records) so that Chris Gillespie (Director) cannot in future say that it’s just a handful of Agents who are not in favour of the scheme.
2) As a result of the above meeting record in writing a general letter to your Office Manager that you had a meeting and that whilst working for Provident that you are opposing the scheme and working under duress at present (i.e. in opposition to the scheme). You need not put any names to the letter.
3) Individually write to each of the directors and record your opposition to the scheme. One letter to each Director. Names of Directors are as follows :
John van Kuffeler, Peter Crook, Andrew Fisher, Chris Gillespie, Robert Hough, Manjit Wolstenholme, K en Mullen, Rob Anderson. All letters individually sent care of
Provident Financial plc
No. 1 Godwin Street
Bradford
BD1 2SU
4) All agent s could nominate a single contact person from each office as soon as possible and perhaps forward details to the chap earlier who said he will help i.e. Dean Lacey ( if that’s okay with him )
5) Plan a week of action on Week 20 whereby there are no Sales completed by Agents. You know the score as they cannot prove that the person wasn’t in, doesn’t want a loan, they missed you etc. This action has to take place on week 20 by all agents and this will affect the company at Director Level, I can assure you.
6) This is for DM’s. No-one blames you for what is going on but we would ask for your support in the actions being taken by the Agents with no sales in week 20. All we ask is that you do not pursue Agents as vigorously as you would normally do for sales.
7) Plan a week of action in week 21. Agents to take only their normal wages on that week. Do not take hits or wins whatever the situation for you. It will mean that there will be shorts and over’s on your paperwork (AWRS). This will trigger Security into a state of panic and admin will go into meltdown.
8)Provident in the past few years have viewed a trend in what many of us can see as a “bullying” or “targeting” strategy. What we mean by this is that if you open your mouth in the office you are seen as a threat! Previous scenarios have seen these people eventually forced to leave the company. What I ask is that any practice that you see as a possibility of “bullying” or “targeting” by anyone in the company towards an agent should be a) highlighted immediately b) witnessed and c) recorded in writing to Head Office in Bradford.
9) Many Self Employed feel that we have nothing to back us up – perhaps joining a Union could help ( even just for a few months) Unite charge £4.95 a month to join and have had recent successes against employers such as Provident regarding Employee v Self Employed status.
10) Question your Self Employment status by writing to the following :
HMRC Custom House
Carnbane Way
Carnbane Industrial Estate
Newry
Northern Ireland
BT35 6QG
State in the letter that you have an Agency Agreement with Provident but you do not think that what is written in the Agreement reflects your self employed status. For example when Provident either give you targets or ask you to provide estimates are they not compromising the “Self Employment” rules?
Any agent who reads this please pass on details to your mates as its the only way of contacting all 11,500 of you out there.

Angry_Norfolk

NotHappyAtAll wrote: »

Hi, i agree totally, but it won't happen, people will be scared to do it for fear of losing their jobs, the few that do it will have their contracts terminated because it will be seen as theft of company money, and as for no sales on week 20, again, people will feel the same for this, not trying to spoil it for everyone because it would hit home very quickly that we, as agents are completly fed up, just being realistic.

Even if only 20% have the guts to follow this I'm sure they wouldnt terminate 20% of their agents. Most AMs DMs are behind this and understand why its being planed. The wont sack good agents for this Im sure. The office Ive just left, almost all of them are sticking together and doing it. Only 2 agents seemed to be a bit put off. Dont be afraid to ask your work mates if their doing it.

bret

frederick_smith wrote: »

WARNING THIS IS A LONG POST BUT NEEDS TO BE READ
Okay time for the moaning to finish folks and time for a bit of action.
The deductions for these penalties would be unlawful should you be an employee however as you are deemed “self employed” by Provident then this is okay by them according to the Agents Agreement which you should have all been supplied with. So where do we go from here? :
1) Agents have local meetings (not in the office and strictly agents only) and gain a consensus that you have a majority of Agents who are against the new Scheme. Record when you had the meeting (for your own records) so that Chris Gillespie (Director) cannot in future say that it’s just a handful of Agents who are not in favour of the scheme.
2) As a result of the above meeting record in writing a general letter to your Office Manager that you had a meeting and that whilst working for Provident that you are opposing the scheme and working under duress at present (i.e. in opposition to the scheme). You need not put any names to the letter.
3) Individually write to each of the directors and record your opposition to the scheme. One letter to each Director. Names of Directors are as follows :
John van Kuffeler, Peter Crook, Andrew Fisher, Chris Gillespie, Robert Hough, Manjit Wolstenholme, K en Mullen, Rob Anderson. All letters individually sent care of
Provident Financial plc
No. 1 Godwin Street
Bradford
BD1 2SU
4) All agent s could nominate a single contact person from each office as soon as possible and perhaps forward details to the chap earlier who said he will help i.e. Dean Lacey ( if that’s okay with him )
5) Plan a week of action on Week 20 whereby there are no Sales completed by Agents. You know the score as they cannot prove that the person wasn’t in, doesn’t want a loan, they missed you etc. This action has to take place on week 20 by all agents and this will affect the company at Director Level, I can assure you.
6) This is for DM’s. No-one blames you for what is going on but we would ask for your support in the actions being taken by the Agents with no sales in week 20. All we ask is that you do not pursue Agents as vigorously as you would normally do for sales.
7) Plan a week of action in week 21. Agents to take only their normal wages on that week. Do not take hits or wins whatever the situation for you. It will mean that there will be shorts and over’s on your paperwork (AWRS). This will trigger Security into a state of panic and admin will go into meltdown.
8)Provident in the past few years have viewed a trend in what many of us can see as a “bullying” or “targeting” strategy. What we mean by this is that if you open your mouth in the office you are seen as a threat! Previous scenarios have seen these people eventually forced to leave the company. What I ask is that any practice that you see as a possibility of “bullying” or “targeting” by anyone in the company towards an agent should be a) highlighted immediately b) witnessed and c) recorded in writing to Head Office in Bradford.
9) Many Self Employed feel that we have nothing to back us up – perhaps joining a Union could help ( even just for a few months) Unite charge £4.95 a month to join and have had recent successes against employers such as Provident regarding Employee v Self Employed status.
10) Question your Self Employment status by writing to the following :
HMRC Custom House
Carnbane Way
Carnbane Industrial Estate
Newry
Northern Ireland
BT35 6QG
State in the letter that you have an Agency Agreement with Provident but you do not think that what is written in the Agreement reflects your self employed status. For example when Provident either give you targets or ask you to provide estimates are they not compromising the “Self Employment” rules?
Any agent who reads this please pass on details to your mates as its the only way of contacting all 11,500 of you out there.

thanks at last aomeone talking sence.

maddison-4700

Hi, unless it was yourself that gave out the loan, and Provident pointed out at that time that should the loan fall into arrears at anytime you would be lieable for a charge then this must be unlawfull. Any action performed by an agent on a companys instruction has to have pre-warned dissclouser re penalties to enable you, as an agent to make an imformed decision about if or if not you want to give the loan out, In short they making you responsable for their choices without giving you prior warning, make a stand with the other agents...... mick