Housing Benefit staff and New Deal staff

bonnie_2

I can honestly say, I have never had a problem with housing benifit. I do however have the money paid to me, so that i can give it to the landlord. As it seems to be quicker, fortnightly into bank account.

dmg24

Whilst I don't necessarily agree in the way that either side of this argument has been voiced up to now, I do myself have very bad experiences in dealing with people at the Jobcentre and the housing benefit department.

I am always very calm when I contact either department, and make sure I know exactly what information I require. However, I have been faced with some incredibly defensive and patronising responses (and I have never asked anyone to break the law!). On more than one occasion, when someone was unable to give me the information I required, rather than offering to find out and call me back, or escalate the query, I have had the phone put down on me.

I think that there is a change in attitude needed in the majority of staff working in this area. I think there are staff who are very competent (though unfortunately these are in the minority of those that I have dealt with) - perhaps these staff should mentor those who are not so good?

I can also understand that there are claimants who are particularly difficult to deal with. But it is not fair for us all to be tarred with the same brush.

Anthillmob

Aitch7 wrote:

What a great example of the 'just doing your job' absolving of any responsibility - thank you for the demonstration.

Furthermore you fail to address what I was really addressing which was the incongruence between what is said and HOW it is said - perhaps you could re-read my post?

I also give suggestions for how to get around this as I do appreciate that the staff cannot do anything about the rules however they could speak in a manner that it congruent with the words - failing to do this is deliberate goading of clients and I think that many people will appreciate what I mean.

Also - perhaps you might want to think about how the system is set up instead of just defending it?

Furthermore - at no time did I suggest asking staff to break the law nor was I referring to examples where client's may ask them to - I therefore object very strongly to this being raised as it it pertains to my e-mail which it does not.

what you seem to fail to understand is benefit staff are tied by rules and regulations.

we must follow regulations to the rule. we cannot bend the rules for anyone even if we feel that yes they are more deserving than mr smith on another claim. some of the things we receive when dealing with claims are heartbreaking and you really want to be able to grant benefit but rules is rules and you cannot override the computer system.

regarding notification letters that are sent out. its is agreed by benefit staff (or at least where i work) that they are extremely confusing but we have no control over the wording of them. they are also sent by an outside company in most instances, hence a waste of a lot of paper and utter confusion for the claimants involved.

regards general letters sent from the benefits office, these letters are usually letters already on the system where you just enter details. sometimes i am not happy with the wording of the letters depending on the circumstances and will copy and paste into a blank letter document and reword myself.

however MOST letters will have to state any regulations and therefore it may seem that we are beauracratic (sp?) @rses butbelieve me we are not.

its agreed some benefit staff could do with politeness tranining but because you have had trouble with a few please do not tar us all with the same brush. a lot of us care about our claimants and want to help.

also remember if you are rude or short or shirty with benefit staff then we do reserve the right to terminate phone calls or pass a letter to a higher eing to be dealt with. we are there to work for a living doing a job that some of us love (i love my job believe it or not) and above all remember we are all human beings with feelings and we do not deserve to be slated or treated like dirt as a collective because one or two bad apples have upset you.

ps. is this a form of 'benefit bashing' in reverse?

Anthillmob

Aitch7 wrote:

What a great example of the 'just doing your job' absolving of any responsibility - thank you for the demonstration.

Furthermore you fail to address what I was really addressing which was the incongruence between what is said and HOW it is said - perhaps you could re-read my post?

I also give suggestions for how to get around this as I do appreciate that the staff cannot do anything about the rules however they could speak in a manner that it congruent with the words - failing to do this is deliberate goading of clients and I think that many people will appreciate what I mean.

Also - perhaps you might want to think about how the system is set up instead of just defending it?

Furthermore - at no time did I suggest asking staff to break the law nor was I referring to examples where client's may ask them to - I therefore object very strongly to this being raised as it it pertains to my e-mail which it does not.

sorry without being rude to your good self if you behave like this 'all high and mighty/know it all' with people then do you not think that you are perhaps asking for the attitude you feel you get?

there is nothing worse in a benefit assessors point of view than a strongly worded arsey letter where the claimant starts staing facts not relevant to the claim/starts getting above their station and gets muddled. the amount of times a claimant has looked at the regulations and taken it upon themselves to tell us how the claim should be assessed accroding to X Y AND Z when in actual fact they are extrenely confused and havent looked into the regs in depth. thus making themselves look a complete tit.

even us assessors have trouble deciphering the regs and have to ask our appeals officer or manager for clarification sometimes.

Anthillmob

Barcode wrote:

I started off under the naive assumption that most benefit staff at York had good intentions. Three years later, I am not so sure. I could write a novel, but I'll keep to the basic points:

(1) Mass confusion due to them not understanding disabled students can claim housing benefits. Took a year to sort out. Back then, I didn't know I had rights to complain.

(2) They then decided I had been overpaid by £2000. The letter admitted it was their error, but I was liable for overpayments.

(3) I went to the local paper, student newspaper, the MP, enlisted the support of a welfare adviser and mysteriously the council then send me a letter of apology stating I had 'not received the normal level of service.' I bet if I hadn't taken these measures they would still be demanding £2000, and I bet some people just believe whatever the council tells them and do nothing.

(4) Staff have 'lost' evidence on more than one occasion, usually because they forget to photocopy something. One time, they didn't photocopy a bank statement I supplied leading to a few months delay. When I complained I was dismissively told 'people make mistakes', yes they do, but these kinds of mistakes can make the difference between some people having a place to sleep at night.

(5) I informed them I was going to be absent under the 13 week rule. I was assured several times this was fine. I then received a letter stating that as I had not complied with the verification visit, benefits were going to be suspended. The verification visit mysteriously took place AFTER I informed them of my absence, and they said a card had been posted through my letterbox, nothing received here. I think it's a lie.

It goes on ... now, I have gotten a decent level of service, but this is only after I have taken rather drastic measures. Will most people think of going to their MP? I doubt it. It disappoints me I had to do this just to get a response.

regulation 99 is the overpayment regulation and it states there that LA error overpayment are recoverable. though in all fairness a lot of the time where i work we do write LA error ops off provided we are satisifed that the claimant wouldnt have reasonably have known that they were being overpaid.

i dont know how long ago this was but you would or should have been given appeal rights.

Anthillmob

seven-day-weekend wrote:

My colleague had death threats from one lady because he wouldn't (couldn't) alter the conditions on a Planning Permission that had been granted years before (not by him).

Aitch, was my colleague supposed to respond to this with a smile and wave? (Actually, he was very laid-back about it - some people would have reported her to the police).

:T

see my thread on DT where a letter i received the claimant has played the race card (again) all because i followed the rules because she didnt provide the info in the time given to do so. how dare she insinuate i am racist. she dont know me from adam or what race i am yet chose to play her little race card that she has played time and time agauin over the years.

Anthillmob

sorry one last thing. if you speak to someone on the phone then chances are they are customer services staff who dont actually assess claims. also they have a high level of staff turnover so could be newbies undergoing training.

Barcode

I was told I could appeal, but had to go and find out how myself. It never went as far as the appeal tribunal as I enlisted the MP, welfare adviser and newspapers before it went that far.

Yes, regulation 99 was quoted, but oddly, the wording was not mentioned in the letter. Some claimants may understandably feel baffled by a letter that reads 'this is in accordance with regulation 99 a copy of which is available on request.' When I investigated I found other regs stating different things.

In a strange way, I'm glad the fiasco happened. It gave me the kick I needed to start dealing with the council instead of putting up with various levels of incompetence.

seven-day-weekend

Anthillmob wrote:

:T

see my thread on DT where a letter i received the claimant has played the race card (again) all because i followed the rules because she didnt provide the info in the time given to do so. how dare she insinuate i am racist. she dont know me from adam or what race i am yet chose to play her little race card that she has played time and time agauin over the years.

Yes, I have seen it. We used to get similar complaints - not so much race, but complaints like 'Mrs So-and-so down the road has got an extension, why are you tellling me I can't have one, did she give you a backhander, etc ..etc...' (not knowing either the law or the facts).

If I'd actually had the backhanders I've been accused of having, I certainly wouldn't be sitting here on a MSE site trying to find ways to make a minute income stretch further!

Poppy9

Aitch7 wrote:

What a great example of the 'just doing your job' absolving of any responsibility - thank you for the demonstration.

Furthermore you fail to address what I was really addressing which was the incongruence between what is said and HOW it is said - perhaps you could re-read my post?

I also give suggestions for how to get around this as I do appreciate that the staff cannot do anything about the rules however they could speak in a manner that it congruent with the words - failing to do this is deliberate goading of clients and I think that many people will appreciate what I mean.

Before I start, I'll confess Local Authority Finance worker - but not Council tax or Housing benefit.

You really need to take into account your own attitude when you are dealing with council/benefit employees. Your posts come over as agressive and superior, this will not endear you to them. You might think you are being perfectly reasonable, but you may not have noticed that your voice has gone up a couple of octaves and you are talking over the staff member when they try to explain the situation. Do you know how many times a day, every day of the week? Most staff (I know there are exceptions) will try to explain in as plain a language as is possible why there are problems processing your claims. Sadly they have to work within the complex rules and regulations and if someone is shouting them down and making personal accusations and shouting "I'm telling you .......etc" then to try to keep calm and to stop them responding in an equally agressive manner they quote the rules and regulations as the person doesn't really want to hear what they have got to say in plain English. All they want to here is "ok I give in, you win, I believe everything you have said, and even though I don't have the required evidence to support your claim I will pass it". It's not going to happen.

You are not alone in getting frustrated in dealing with officialdom. Council workers also get frustrated. I can make 6 phone calls in work trying to speak to the right person. I hate being passed from pillar to post and having no one take responsibilty. I do however try to stay calm when I finally get through to the right person as I don't think it would help taking my frustration out on them. Knowing how this makes me feel I always take responsibilty for a call, even if it's not for me or my section, if I cannot pass them with absolute confidence to the right department. A simple thing and I doubt the caller appreciates it but I feel I am doing my job properly as a council employee. An example is when I was based in Social Services, anything to do with money was passed to me as the accountant. I didn't pay invoices or grants or carry out assessments etc but if a caller had a query on these areas and went through to the switchboard the call would come to me. Often the caller would be shouting at me if they wanted payment, even before I had said Good Morning........ I would leave them rant and it was so tempting if they were really rude to say "wrong dept, I'll transfer you". I wouldn't though unless they were exceptionally rude! I would take their details and telephone number and promise to get the appropriate person call them back. Then I would pass the message on. Later in the day I would call/email the person to check to see if they had got back to the caller. If not I would call them back to let them know they hadn't been forgotton.

A funny story when I worked in Student awards (remember the days of student grants). September/October would be a very busy time with irate parents ringing to complain that their child hadn't received their student grant. The grants went direct to the college and the student picked them up from their and signed for them and provided ID. I would then get a copy of the form back with their signature on. I would have all the abuse of how useless the council were, their child was going to be starving/homeless, how they should give my job to someone who was capable of doing it in a timely matter etc. I would listen and when I could get a word in confirm that the cheque had been sent and that I would ring the college to ensure they had recieved it. I would ring the college who would confirm that the student had signed for and collected the cheque the previous week. Then I would ring back Mum or Dad and say "according to the college records the cheque has been signed and collected by your child, however if this is not the case I will now need to inform our fraud department". We didn't have a fraud dept.:o and often I didn't even get to this bit as the parent would say "I'll bloody kill them, trying to fleece me for more money":rotfl:

Anyway to one and all, if you are not happy with your dealings with the council ask for a copy of their complaints procedure. When you are feeling calm outline your complaint and make sure to copy in your local councillor (email address on council website).