Water Rates and Rateable Values

casuarina

Last year I thought a water meter would be a good idea, Southern Water visited and it turns out I wouldn't benefit. This contact with SW led me to discover that I have been overcharged the whole time that I have lived in my house (10yrs).
I live in the middle of a 3 house terrace. The houses are all the same.
I have discovered that my neighbours either side pay a lot less water rates than I do. It appears their "Rateable Values" are less. My house was rated at £1.38/£, and theirs were £1.23/£ and £1.21/£.
I have had an explanation from SW which shows that they are acting according to a Government Directive.
This isn't fair. It's lunacy to say this can't be changed because "the Valuation Office can no longer consider an application for reassessment....because domestic rates were abolished in 1990.
SW water say they "do not have the jurisdiction to change the rateable value" and so " are unable to reassess my bills since 2001"
Of course they can't change the rateable value. They have been extinct for 21 years!
They are a Water Company-of course they can reassess my bills. And a few million other people who, like me, didn't even know they are paying too much.

Question is how to pursue this?

Cardew

Welcome to the forum.

I think you have misunderstood!

The Rateable Value(RV) is a figure e.g.RV= £150 or RV = £200 (it can be any figure between say £50 and £1,000 and is nothing to do with Council Tax banding

What you pay is so much for each £1 of RV. Water might be say £1.20 in the pound and used water(sewerage) say £1.10 in the pound. So if your house had an RV of £150 you would pay 150 x £1.20 = £180 + 150 x £1.10 = £165 a total of £345.

It is possible that their RV might be slightly different to you, but not the amount per £1 RV for water. It could be different for sewerage if you are paying for Surface Water drainage(SWD) and they are not.

I would check your bill against your neighbour's bill because the £1.38/£, £1.21/3 and 1.23/£ doesn't sound correct - are they all for the same year? .

SW are quite correct that there is no way to change the RV, the only option was for the occupant to have applied for a meter - they had the choice.

Covered many many times on MSE.

Gothicfairy

But you are not paying to much..You are paying for your RV, which was based on the condition of your property when it was assessed. Yours might well have been the more modern or nicer at the time.
If a meter is not possible you can have assessed but it would seem that SW are saying your RV is lower then anything else they can offer.

How did you work out what your neighbours are paying because as Cardew has already said, that is not an RV and the rate of charge IE the pounds and pence don't change from customer to customer

In the end though there is nothing you can do about it other then get a meter or accept assessed charges.

casuarina

I haven't misunderstood. I know what Rateable Value means and how they were assessed. I have seen my neighbours bills because we are all friends.
My point is - water is water, and how much the property could have been rented for 21 years ago is irrelevant in 2011.
Our properties are identical, though I do have fractionally less land.
Incidentally, the water to our 3 houses comes exclusively from one SW stopcock.

I'm sorry if this has been covered many times but I am new to the web site.

Gothicfairy

No water company changes the price per pound for RV..so either you have misunderstood ( although you say not) or you are reading the bill wrong.
The water companies charge is fixed ie £1.23 for water and your bill will be RV times £1.23. That £1.23 will be the charge though for everyone on RV in the water compaines area.

The fact that RV's can and are different can be a issue but at the moment there is nothing (apart from fitting a meter) that anyone can do.

The only place really to complain to would be the government and OFWAT as they agreed this is how RV properties were to be charged rather then the water company who have little to no choice in the matter.

Cardew

casuarina wrote: »

I haven't misunderstood. I know what Rateable Value means and how they were assessed. I have seen my neighbours bills because we are all friends.
My point is - water is water, and how much the property could have been rented for 21 years ago is irrelevant in 2011.
Our properties are identical, though I do have fractionally less land.
Incidentally, the water to our 3 houses comes exclusively from one SW stopcock.

I'm sorry if this has been covered many times but I am new to the web site.

There really is no point in discussing the injustice of the situation; you can blame Maggie Thatcher for the Water privatisation Act. That Act laid down the method by which properties would charged for their water.

It was originally intended in 1990 that all properties would be metered, but as this would have meant a large increase in charges for some houses, meters were not made compulsory.

You can further blame the government for the stupidity of RV assessment - which was last assessed for most properties in 1973.
A situation that can allow a Council Tax Band H mansion with 20 acres to have a lower RV than a Band A estate semi.

Your original post stated:

It appears their "Rateable Values" are less. My house was rated at £1.38/£, and theirs were £1.23/£ and £1.21/£.

To repeat those figures you have given are not Rateable Values; so if you feel you 'haven't misunderstood', and 'know what Rateable Value means' I am at a loss to understand why you made that statement.

Again to repeat a 'Rateable Value' is expressed as £xxx e.g. £189 or £378.

I will also wager that your water charges for the same year are the same value in the pound e.g. £1.38 in the pound.

macman

How did you deduce from a visit by SW that you 'would not benefit' from a meter? The purpose of their visit was to determine whether or not a meter could be physically fitted, not to tell you if you would be better off on a metered supply. Unless there is some reason why they cannot fit a meter, then you cannot apply for assessed charges. Your only options are to fit a meter or stay on RV billing.
The fact that your neighbours' charges are different is completely irrelevant under RV billing for the reasons given above, and is no fault of SW. They are required to bill based on the rateable value recorded.

mcc100

macman wrote: »

How did you deduce from a visit by SW that you 'would not benefit' from a meter? The purpose of their visit was to determine whether or not a meter could be physically fitted, not to tell you if you would be better off on a metered supply.

Exactly. SW should not be telling you that you will not be better off on a meter meter.

The whole idea of a switchback guarantee is so that you are able to have a meter fitted and if you are not better off on a meter then you can revert back to the RV bill within 12 or 24 months.

Gothicfairy

Mcc100:
They might not have said flat out "you would be no better off" but just going through the calculator would show if a saving is likley to be made and in some cases it is 100% clear that a meter is not the cheaper option for some people.

Cardew

Gothicfairy wrote: »

Mcc100:
They might not have said flat out "you would be no better off" but just going through the calculator would show if a saving is likley to be made and in some cases it is 100% clear that a meter is not the cheaper option for some people.

Totally agree.

The OP lives in a terraced house, and some of these older houses have a 'peppercorn' RV. e.g £50 or so.

Mind you 10 Downing Street is also a terraced house!!

casuarina

I want to draw a line under this. I had hoped that perhaps someone had successfully challenged this ridiculous arbitrary form of billing, where people must pay different amounts to the same company for unmetered water, even though all circumstances are identical.
Recapping:
I can’t have a metered supply because the 3 houses are supplied from the same SW stopcock, and the house’s internal stopcock is inaccessible for meter fitting.
I am old. We used to do sums in school calculating Rates from varying Rateable Values. So, yes I do understand how it used to work, and how different houses could pay different Rates, though their Rateable Values were the same.
My monthly bill has just gone up. So have my neighbours’ bills. And I am still paying £7 a month more than they are. And our houses are still identical.
Thank you all for your input. I shall pursue this via the official SW Complaints procedure, then the Ombudsman etc. I wish I was part of a lobby though. I must be one of thousands who would benefit from correction of this anomalous situation.
I’m sure that when the issue over unfair and incorrect Council Tax Banding was first mooted, everyone said ‘….oh that’s how it is…….never mind’