Was this car in the wrong?

sequence

bezzza wrote: »

I have a slightly different take on the situation (although I do agree that the car driver should not have edged right up to the OP as it was clearly inconsiderate to do so) as my interpretation of the situation is that there were 2 lanes with a dedicated right hand turn lane and the OP CHOSE to sit in the MIDDLE of the lane - the OP claimed they move forward so I would assume out of the advance box (again, inconsiderate but this time by the OP as the car driver probably thought you were going to perform a U turn and not turn right) instead of keeping to the left hand side of the right hand turn lane (as they would have and should have been keeping to the left of the road they were turning into, in the gutter). I can see both sides of the argument and would like to add something else from personal experience - why do I as a car driver have to allow for a cyclists mistakes (riding round parked cars without checking for traffic behind, multiple cyclists riding alongside each other on country lanes, not wearing high visibility colours or cycle lights, etc etc etc?)

What the ??? I couldn't possibly have imagined a more bizarre and very wrong way to look at this situation!

Would you mind enlightening us as to what is inconsiderate about moving forward out of the ASL to turn rights, and what is inconsiderate about using a right turn lane to turn right.

Also, what would lead anyone to think that the OP would have been doing a U turn ?

P.S you should ALWAYS control the lane when turning right on a bike.

Norman_Castle

It seems to me like she should have waited behind me, not tried to force herself in front of me?

She should wait behind you. You were overtaken, on the left, while negotiating a junction.

geri1965_2

Thanks everyone - very useful. If this situation occurs again I may well politely tap on the window and inform the driver that what they are doing is wrong.

Although last time I did that I got tailgated and subjected to foul mouthed abuse from the two OAPs in the car for some distance.

Norman_Castle

Although last time I did that I got tailgated and subjected to foul mouthed abuse from the two OAPs in the car for some distance.

I have a pen clipped to my bike ready to write down reg numbers of dangerous and abusive drivers.

darich

bezzza wrote: »

why do I as a car driver have to allow for a cyclists mistakes (riding round parked cars without checking for traffic behind, multiple cyclists riding alongside each other on country lanes, not wearing high visibility colours or cycle lights, etc etc etc?)

Firstly - you're not always right....as you've shown in your post.
Secondly - you should make allowances because if you don't, and are involved in a bump with a cyclist or motorcyclist, there's a reasonable chance they'll come off significantly worse than you.

Someone already mentioned it but I'll say it again since I was told the exact same thing during my CBT a couple of months back - always adopt a dominant position on a motorcycle/bicycle.

Cars should give as much room to two wheels as they do other cars so by adopting a dominant position, as the OP did, he/she was doing their best to protect themself from idiots such as the one encountered and those who post daft comments such as yours.

DaveF327

Just a sidenote on correct positioning here when turning right at traffic lights (so many people have no idea about this, it seems) - Did you move forwards as much as possible so allow the maximum number of cars behind you to enter the junction as well?

One of the latest traffic "trends" these days is being stuck behind a driver (but it could just as well be a cyclist) who absolutely will not move more than a foot over the stop line when waiting for oncoming traffic so that when the lights change again, every driver behind is then trapped at the stop line. It's people like that that I feel like nudging out of the way :mad:

darich

DaveF327 wrote: »

One of the latest traffic "trends" these days is being stuck behind a driver (but it could just as well be a cyclist) who absolutely will not move more than a foot over the stop line when waiting for oncoming traffic so that when the lights change again, every driver behind is then trapped at the stop line. It's people like that that I feel like nudging out of the way :mad:

Doesn't that mean a driver or cyclist could be stuck in the middle of a junction facing a red light because they've edged forward over the line???
Would you like to be in the middle of a live junction on a push bike with cars driving on all sides?

thelawnet

bezzza wrote: »

I have a slightly different take on the situation

You certainly do.

(although I do agree that the car driver should not have edged right up to the OP as it was clearly inconsiderate to do so) as my interpretation of the situation is that there were 2 lanes with a dedicated right hand turn lane and the OP CHOSE to sit in the MIDDLE of the lane

Which is correct. If you position yourself on the right-hand side of the lane you get idiot car drivers undertaking, or if you position yourself on the left you get them overtaking.

- the OP claimed they move forward

'Claimed'?

so I would assume out of the advance box (again, inconsiderate

No, not inconsiderate, you wait behind the line until the lights change, when they change you move into position. Even at a box junction, the Highway Code says

'you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right'

but this time by the OP as the car driver probably thought you were going to perform a U turn and not turn right)

That's implausible, I have never seen a cyclist doing a u-turn at traffic lights, it would make more sense to use the pedestrian crossing. The car driver was just rude and impatient.

instead of keeping to the left hand side of the right hand turn lane (as they would have and should have been keeping to the left of the road they were turning into, in the gutter).

Highway Code, Rule 74 'If you are turning right, check the traffic to ensure it is safe, then signal and move to the centre of the road. Wait until there is a safe gap in the oncoming traffic and give a final look before completing the turn.'

Only cyclists who have allowed themselves to be bullied by obnoxious motorists would ever cycle in the gutter - it's unsafe. You should cycle either in primary position (the default), which is in the middle of the line for cars, or in secondary position, which is at least 0.5 metres from the edge of the road (which tends to be slippery with grit, drains and other hazards) but to the left of moving traffic.

I can see both sides of the argument and would like to add something else from personal experience - why do I as a car driver have to allow for a cyclists mistakes

Because you don't want to kill someone? Because you've read your Highway Code and recognise that:

"The most vulnerable road users are pedestrians, cyclists, motorcyclists and horse riders."

"Motorcyclists and cyclists may suddenly need to avoid uneven road surfaces and obstacles such as drain covers or oily, wet or icy patches on the road. Give them plenty of room and pay particular attention to any sudden change of direction they may have to make."

(riding round parked cars without checking for traffic behind,

That's a consequence of you insisting they should ride in the gutter.

The cyclist is in front of you and has right of way: if you see there are parked cars obstructing the path you should anticipate their movement rather than selfishly trying to get past with no regard for their safety. If they cycled on the right of the lane you'd not be happy about that either.

multiple cyclists riding alongside each other on country lanes,

Perfectly lawful, if you are overtaking safely it should be easier to overtake than a long line of single-file cyclists. Two cyclists side-by-side is less of an obstruction than a tractor. Remember they've got as much right to be there as you.

not wearing high visibility colours

Not a requirement at all. If you can't see cyclists without a high-vis jacket on, please get your eyes tested/pay more attention/slow down.

or cycle lights, etc etc etc?)

I have more sympathy for this issue, as a cyclist I find it bothersome too - in Germany bikes are required by law to be fitted with dynamo lights, which is sensible as casual cyclists might not bother - they go out in daylight and don't anticipate coming home in the dark. Again, you are aware they will be there so you should anticipate their presence.

geri1965_2

DaveF327 wrote: »

Just a sidenote on correct positioning here when turning right at traffic lights (so many people have no idea about this, it seems) - Did you move forwards as much as possible so allow the maximum number of cars behind you to enter the junction as well?

I always get as far forward as I can, without putting myself at risk from the traffic coming from the right. This helps my chances of getting across if a gap in the traffic opens up. And as you say, it helps not to annoy vehicles behind me.

geri1965_2

Norman_Castle wrote: »

I have a pen clipped to my bike ready to write down reg numbers of dangerous and abusive drivers.

Ever thought about one of those handlebar cameras?