Read the small print properly - MPPI from Cardif Pinnacle

Fool_2

I am a stupid fool,

If you take out one of these policies check the small print like I didn't.

Their definition of the term "unemployment" means if you are paid in leui you are not "unemployed" until that period ends. But, to be honest it's pretty unfair especially when you buy based on the marketing blurb you just see unemployment cover for if you lost your job plain and simple, why wouldn't you? (Again, I am a stupid fool.)

Further to this, if you ever have the displeasure of having to go through the demoralising benefits system process (which I had to do to begin my MPPI policy claim) you may well find that you are only entitled to NI contributions based Job Seekers Allowance (rather than Income Support) which you can only get for a maximum of 6 months. After that you have to really hit rock bottom for any more help.

The thing is that insurance companies know all this so hard working people are great revenue for them. I never knew any of this as have always worked all my life but now I am in trouble as I have a huge mortgage to pay, credit card debts and no job.

Think about it this way.

Someone who has worked hard all their life and is then made redundant will very likely only get NI based JSA so that cuts the 12 month policy down to 6 months straightaway, who else would really buy one of these policies but professionals in the first place because it is supposed to fill the gap for them as they can't get any mortgage help so easily.

Deduct the leiu period set by the employer (likely to be a minimum of a month period for most) and you're down to 5 months (3 in my case.) that you can claim for anyway.

So, stupidly I had paid some of my credit cards off to responsibly reduce my debt as without a job I can't get new ones to tart the cards left and interest kicks in soon on the remainder and you don't want that round your neck without a job.

Then, thinking I had the mortgage part covered I got the news today two months after I was made redundant that it will be nearly four months before I will receive a payment from Pinnacle !

On a serious note, it is not the kind of stress you need when trying to find a new job. In fact it directly affects your chances of getting a good job because you're so worried.

A. Fool

darky

Empathise with your situation but you can't seriously expect a company to pay you until the payment in lieu period is over!

Hope u get a new job quickly though - especially at this time of year

Astaroth

Have to totally agree with darky.... if you had simply had to work your notice would you still have expected to have had your mortgage paid for the 4 months you worked for?

You are in an even better situation where you are being paid for the next 4 months and not having to pay travelling expenses to get to work and back.

Fool_2

Well darky and astaroth, thanks for the replies.

Yes I expect that because if you read the marketing information when buying one of these things it is clearly what you are led to believe. Unemployed is unemployed and it means loss of office.

Payment in leiu with redundancy is bad news if you have one of these policies and a 12 month policy may only have a maximum of 3-6 months payable in reality as explained above depending on your situation with the benefits office (thereafter and/or until you're in the gutter) so it doesn't really do what it says on the tin as far as I am concerned.

These are the points I am making here.

And exactly why we are talking about the small print.

If it is as obvious as you are both suggesting then it wouldn't be hidden in their definition of the term unemployed.

As long as everyone now knows about this up front that is the important thing as I would not want this to happen to anyone else taking out an MPPI policy.

As I said already I am a fool sure, but I won't make the same mistake again and neither will anyone else who reads this.

A. Fool

Miss_Penny_Pincher_2

Sorry to hear about your situation.

I think it is very misleading how they have worded the policy!
They must realise that people probably wouldn't take it out if they would only get like 3 months cover!

This kind of deception, and I believe it is, should not be allowed. Gives insurance companies an even worse reputation!

I really hope you find a good job soon.

Astaroth

The 12 months kicks in from the end of the in lieu of notice period and so you would get the 12 months of payment if you were still unemployed after that. At the end of the day you got the 4 months salary which would cover the repayments during the 4 months.

I do not understand your point on 3-4 months aspect to comment on it

Wyndham

Contracts are all about the small print!

Sorry about your situation, but I think Astoroth is right - you'll still get the 12 months once your payment in leau time is up.

Live and learn?

Fool_2

Please let me explain again for you astaroth. These policies are supposed to fill the gap left by the fact that the state does not help out until you hit rock bottom.

Otherwise, why would you buy an MPPI policy?
(You would not bother)

Once 6 months are up the benefits office withdraw NI contributions based JSA.

When this happens the insurer will also withdraw any further MPPI claim payments.
(all claims must be signed off by a benefits office)

Hence 6 months maximum payable at this point unless you then receive income support.

To be eligible for income support means you have to be for want of better wording completely broke and in the gutter. Bear in mind this might not be for some time or, worse you may not even be eligible if your partner works and you manage to stay just off rock bottom.

And, we must not forget that any debts you might have including your mortgage payments are not taken into account.

Again, this is what MPPI policies are supposed to protect against, having to loose everything or nearly everything before you can get any help because the state doesn't help until you are pretty much penniless.

The six months is further reduced by any leiu period. So, whilst JSA is active and eating in to the six months the claim payments will still not come in to effect until the leiu period is over.

And, if you don't have a back to day one policy you would loose another month as well. And payments are in arrears as well so that's another month gone by that your mortgage is not being paid. Oh, and there is also the time it takes to process and issue the payment (this is another six working days each time.)

Basically, if you work hard and loose your job through redundancy an MPPI policy may not help you anything like you think it would as it could be many months before you get that first crucial payment and you still have to go to rock bottom (just the same as you would without it) to get the full benefit of the policy whilst unemployed and you may not get that anyway.

Certainly has not given me the peace of mind I thought I would have, just more worry and another direct debit payment eating up what's left in my account.

A. (Wiser) Fool

Astaroth

To be honest I think you are both mistaken and being very unfair.

Certainly with ourselves, we would continue to pay an unemployment claim after your JSA had "run out" as long as you are continuing to seek employment up to the maximum number of months under the policy, normally 12. I have never heard of another insurer that doesnt do the same.

You cannot expect to get insurance payment for time that you received pay. If you had had to work your 4 months notice rather than being given cash in lieu of it would you have still expected them to pay out during the notice period?

ohmsoft

To all intents and purposes while you are in a lieu payment you are effectively still empolyed. I wouldn't expect any insurer to cover that period.

Your standard excess period 30/60 day etc is agreed in advance and accounted for in premiums. Also I agree with the above - all the policies I've seen would continue paying for 12 months despite JSA ending - you prove your looking for a job by other means.

Fool_2

astaroth,

I believe I am neither mistaken or unfair. First of all it wasn't 4 months it was 3 (I think you have included the payment in arrears period.)

Yes, I expect to get an insurance payment if I am unemployed (the real meaning of it.) And, I have already said this. The definition of the term unemployed would not need to be changed from the correct meaning in the small print if it were obvious.

And, payment in leiu does not mean you are "effectively" still employed at all. To be employed you must have a contract of employment and I do not have one of those.

Anyway, as long as everyone knows about it then this doesn't need any further discussion. I have been burnt and have learnt from it and as long as people can read this they can learn too if they didn't know before.

Secondly, you suggest that the claim continues to pay after NI Contributions based JSA ends. Let me say this,

I must be continually registered as unemployed with the Benefits Agency throughout the duration of my claim.
I must provide an unemployment continuing claim form that must be completed by the benefits agency every month before any payment can be issued.

Incidentally, before the 1st payment can be issued even though a claim form has already been completed (with the part completed by the benefit agency) a second continuing claim form must be processed and again completed by the benefit agency as well (same questions.) So that's two forms that need to be completed by the benefit agency before even the 1st payment can be considered.

One of the questions on the continuing claim form asks if benefit has been stopped so you can see that it would be fair to consider that once JSA is stopped you would expect not to be able to continue to claim (unless eligible for income support and I have explained my points about that already above.)

Are you are saying I did not need to register with the benefits agency ?
I have been led to believe that I do have to do so and as far as I can see the two are intrinsically linked.

A. (Much Wiser) Fool