NEED ADVICE PLEASE! Vets and unexplained charges

wdmfws

Hi All,
I really hope that someone can help me as I really don't know what to do.
A friend and I co-op a cat called Frankie. I know it sounds strange but it's a long story! :-)

As is this one...

The cat lives with my friend most of the time and I pay the vet insurance. The cat is identichipped and the emergency contact details are that of my friend.

A while back, Frankie was run over (don't worry - this story does not have an unhappy ending in that respect - Frankie is fine). My friend was called on her mobile to say that a cat had been picked up, the identichip info matched her details, was it hers, and could she come and collect it, etc.

She was told that Frankie had been run over and found, and then taken to our local PDSA.

My friend went straight to the PDSA. When she got there she was told that no cat called Frankie had been brought in. The service was awful, they were rude, telling her that they were sure they were correct!

When she persisted, it turned out that they did have Frankie there, but they didn't know that it was him - we dont know why.

Anyway, confusion over - my friend asked for the dignosis. They told her a few minor things, a couple of things that needed to be sorted through pills and that was it. Lucky escape! (2nd of nine lives...)

My friend didn't really like their attitude or trust their knowledge so decided to take Frankie to her own, trusted, vet. As she has 12 animals in her house, she is no stranger to them and knows her stuff. She also trusts her own vets very much.

Her own vet told her a completely different diagnosis, including a very serious problem which if it were not treated, would have ended up with poor Frankie dying.

Of course my friend was livid! She has always felt that the PDSA wasn't very good to be honest (maybe just our branch - we aren't mud slinging here) and she was so pleased that she had taken Frankie to her own vet.

The vet sorted out Frankie, the insurance claimed was placed, paid out and we're all happy in the end.

HOWEVER about 4 weeks after all of this happened, my friend gets a phone call. It was from a company called Vets Now, who claimed that it was actually them who found Frankie, took him to the PDSA branch, and that my friend owed them £150! They also said that they had sent 4 letters and had no reply.

No mention of Vets Now had ever been made up until this point at all. My friend said all of this and the lady who called her was insistent that all of this is true. So considering that the PDSA made a life-threatening mistake in the diagnosis, my friend says, well actually, whilst you're on... 'it was awful and everything was wrong until i took him to my own vet!'

The lady from Vets Now said that the diagnosis they made themselves (not the PDSA), DID include the serious issue and she didn't know what my friend was talking about.

So, by the end of the call, what we believe is that, IF Vets Now did pick up Frankie, they made a diagnosis, packed Frankie off to the PDSA, then ALL the paperwork was lost, which is why when my friend went in, they didn't know who he was or what was wrong with him! Basically - a complete mess! OR none of this is true...

So my friend says to the lady from Vets Now - 'oh i can see what's happened, my advice is that you chase the PDSA as i didnt agree to pay anything, have already submitted my insurance claim, don't even have any evidence that any of this is true or did actually happen, etc. Basically, I'm not liable for this cost.'

Also, no letters have EVER been received. Now, 1 or 2 letters might get lost in the post but not 4!

The lady from Vets Now is insisting that my friend should pay, so quite logically, my friend asks for this to be escalated to a manager, and asks the lady from Vets Now - 'can you see the position I am in?'. The lady from Vets Now agrees that it would be strange for any person to simply pay out £150 with no evidence of anything at all, so agrees to escalate the situation to her manager, sort out copy paperwork etc.

My friend hears nothing for 5 weeks.

This morning, my friend gets a call on her mobile (the only details they have for her), from a Debt Collection Agency telling her that they are chasing the £150 - plus costs.

My friend rings me, very worried. I tell her to ignore it. They dont have her address therefore can't affect her credit rating, or disturb her in her home and she didn't request a service, or have any proof that she even received a service thefore cannot be legally liable for anything! If it were me, I would leave it. However, my friend is not me, and wants to clear it up.

There is no ombudsman for vets as far as I can see by researching on the net.

Can anyone help please?

Is there someone we can go to report this company for pursuing a bill for a service that was never agreed

I think they are chancing it to be honest but my friend is the one who is getting phone calls so she is being harrassed, not me.

Should we send a letter from a solicitor asking them to stop harassing her? With no legal contract or agreement in place, that's what it is, in my opinion but we want to do the correct thing, not a knee-jerk reaction.

We feel that we don't know where to turn - please don't suggest the CAB - they are incapable of providing assistance.

Thanks!

picklepick

Does your pet insurance offer a legal advice service?
Some give you access to a legal helpline that you can call for free.
Check your paperwork and give them a call if you have.

Sorry I'm not able to offer any more advice. Just glad that your Frankie is ok.
Other than that, I'd probably seek the advice of a solicitor. Some will give you a free phone call in the first instance before they start charging for services.

wdmfws

not at all - that is helpful - thank you! will call the insurance now.

Yes Frankie is back to his naughty self. :-)

Mayflower10cat

Absolutely - get back in touch with your pet insurance and explain everything that's since happened. Put it in writing as it's so complicated. I'd never heard of 'Vets Now' and had to google them. I can't quite work out why they'd pass on a microchipped pet to the PDSA and not contact you (or the co-owner) via the chip details? All very strange.

And I'm very, very glad that Frankie is OK.

wdmfws

thank you - will do that now. all very helpful!

spookylukey

Vets Now cover evenings and weekends for regular vets, they don't have their own premises so work out of the host vet surgery. Come 8am they transfer care ie the paperwork to the host vets.

Have you looked on the PDSA website to see if Vets Now cover the evenings/weekends at the PDSA the cat ended up at? Their fees are very high and £150 sounds about right (for them!). When my cat was ill he had to go to my normal vet surgery out of hours which was being covered by Vets Now so I had two bills. One for the 'Vets Now' element of his care and the second for my regular vets bill when they took over his care the next morning. I had to fill in two separate insurance claims which were both paid out with no problems.

morg_monster

Mayflower10cat wrote: »

I can't quite work out why they'd pass on a microchipped pet to the PDSA and not contact you (or the co-owner) via the chip details? All very strange.

But it sounds to me that it WAS Vets Now who called her on the mobile?

Also you say that the "service wasn't agreed" but presumably the service was patching Frankie up when he was brought in after the accident?! It's better that they took a look at him ASAP without owner's consent than waited until after they had contacted someone, surely!

It sounds like a mess and that it's either Vets Now or PDSA's fault (probably PDSA) but I'm surprised that your friend didn't expect to pay anything for the initial treatment Frankie received.

Yes definitely see if you can find a solicitor. But if Vets Now/ PDSA can produce the paperwork I would think you'll probably have to pay (from a legal standpoint I guess; from a moral standpoint too IMHO). If PDSA can't produce the paperwork then legally it's probably more iffy but again morally; they do a lot of good work even if in this case they weren't quite up to scratch. They must be some of the busiest vets in the country.

good luck with it all anyway, sounds like a right mess!! Glad kitty is OK.

wdmfws

hiya - thanks for the replies - nice for everyone to be so helpful. to answer / clear up a few points:

It was the PDSA that called her. She paid the PDSA for the initial treatment.

Had we been told at the begninning that Vets Now had provided a service, of course we would have paid for it and included it on the insurance claim - but they didn't tell us, they won't send any paper records and PDSA say they don't know what we're talking about.

I have rang the insurance company and spoken to the legal helpline on the advice of another forum-goer (thanks). they were very helpful but have said that they would have to think twice about accepting another claim - and definitely wouldn't accept it if there was no paper evidence - naturally!

If only Vets Now would send the paperwork we could sort all of this out but they won't, so we can't.

In the meantime my friend has had another rather unpleasant call from the Debt Collrctors hired by Vets Now.

We have put in another request to Vets Now to produce the paperwork so we can put this to bed. We'll just have to wait now...

Doh!

hotcookie101

Vets now is a specialist out of hours provider, they have been around for about 10 years. In a lot of areas they work out of PDSA hospitals. PDSA hospitals don't do their own OOH-vets now do. So if you got a call out of hours (evening or weekend) thats going to have been Vets Now, not the PDSA

Also the PDSA are a charity, so do not charge fees, does your friend have a receipt for the payment she made to them, and does it say Vets Now, or does it say PDSA and is it classed as a donation? Have you claimed for this on the insurance?

I think its a mix up, but I suspect its the reason why initally the PDSA did not know they had your cat (as it was taken into Vets Now) as normally they are transferred back to the owners practice, but if brought in as a stray (albeit chipped) then I imagine thats where the confusion occured.

The other thing is, if the money was still outstanding, even though you have already made an insurance claim then it is fine to put another in, you will not have to pay another excess.

Technically, if an animal has been brought in a stray, you cannot charge the owner for anything until they agree treatment. Most decent owners will pay, when you explain what you have done with their pet prior to getting their consent for treatment (ie in an emergency)

With the phone call saying he had been picked up, it is possible your friend agreed to treatment verbally. An OOH consult with Vets Now, is approx £120, plus any treatment, so the values sound right.

snowman2_2

hotcookie101 wrote: »

Technically, if an animal has been brought in a stray, you cannot charge the owner for anything until they agree treatment. Most decent owners will pay, when you explain what you have done with their pet prior to getting their consent for treatment (ie in an emergency)

Yes you can charge with permission, but only for first aid, pain relief and emergency life saving treatment. From the posts, it seems as this is what Vets Now have charged although there was some confusion over the role of the PDSA (who use the building in the daytime & Vets Now who use the same building at night).

The problem is that legally dog's have a status but cats are excluded from most legislation. As a technical point of law, you could probably argue that your cat was a wild animal and not subject to your control and as such, you have no financial liability. Your cat, however, is microchipped and clearly owned so I doubt that argument would win over many judges as long as only first aid treatment was charged for. The simple thing to do would be to ring your insurance company and claim the amount from them. If you had submitted a claim for the Vets Now treatment first they would probably have paid out both claims. Give them a ring and then speak to Vets Now

wdmfws

hi all - thanks again!

the fee / donation was paid to the PDSA and has been receipted by them and was put through, but rejected, on the insurance as it is a voluntary donation.

we beleive the reason why no-one knew anything was because some paperwork has been lost.

the insurance company have said that they will not add this to the existing claim and therefore would be a new claim subject to the excess in the normal way.

Mt friend din't agree to anything over the phone - she was just told where and when. i.e. they didn't offer anything over the phone either.

Yes the value does sound about right, i agree.

All of this notwithstanding (or withstanding...) the point is that some mistakes have been made (we all make them...) by the PDSA and Vets Now and if they would only send through the paperwork, it would all be sorted.

however they won't for some reason so until that comes through, we're waiting!

thanks again.