Is there any burden of proof on the police?

Sessie

Thanks again everyone. I'm at work at the moment so only checking sporadically as we're really busy!

Busy dealing with claims for people who weren't wearing seatbelts! Funny how even when they admit that fact as part of a personal injury claim (it only reduces the amount they get as compensation for their injuries by 25%!!) they DON'T get a £60 fine, but just because a police officer says he has "reason to believe" my husband wasn't wearing one when he WAS, he DOES get the fine?

Funny old world isn't it? Funny, unfair old world...

I suppose we are going to have to give in here and pay the darn fine. I may well write to the Chief Constable or something with a detailed letter outlining what happened and supporting evidence etc.. and asking whether they will reconsider but I don't expect anything to happen.

I will also express that the fine has been paid basically through lack of choice and that we utterly refute their allegation so that if anything like this happens again we are covered and they can't say "well, he did it once before and you paid up". We can then say, "actually, no he didn't but we were backed into a corner by you and financially had no choice".

I'm still angry but more than that, I'm really sad that my view of the police has dropped now.

x

TonyMMM

Sessie wrote: »

I will also express that the fine has been paid basically through lack of choice and that we utterly refute their allegation so that if anything like this happens again we are covered and they can't say "well, he did it once before and you paid up". We can then say, "actually, no he didn't but we were backed into a corner by you and financially had no choice".


x

That will result in the matter being passed to court anyway ..... you can't pay a fine and qualify it with "but I'm not guilty and only paying it because ...."

You need to decide to either accept the fine , pay it and move on,

OR

Contest it, plead Not Guilty and have the evidence tested in court.

It isn't very likely that the officer was so short of stuff to do that he/she decided to "fit somebody up" for a seatbelt offence. They probably have a genuine belief that the seatbelt wasn't being worn. So you need to concentrate on making a case for court that shows why that officer was mistaken (as has been advised already) .....dark clothing ? Poor visibility ? Line of sight etc.

NeverAgain_2

Sessie,

I can understand why you've taken the decision, not least because you've been good enough to tell us.

But I still think it's a shame.

You want to be a little careful what you say in letters, not because you will get into trouble, you won't.

But if you write - in particular to the court - along the lines of: "I didn't do it, but I'm only pleading guilty to save time and money', they may not accept the plea, and you will have a trial anyway.

Plead guilty (if you must), get the decision, pay the fine, wait a day or two, then write what you like to the chief constable.

Before you do that, bear in mind to fight this is unlikely to cost very much in terms of money.

Your husband could represent himself - many people do in cases of this nature.

If he puts up a decent case, even if the magistrates find against him, they will not hammer him financially.

But as others have said, it will cost in terms of time off to attend court.

Sessie

I said I was going to write to the Chief Constable of the Police not the Court, as a form of "Appeal" rather than a "I'm paying but I didn't do it" but also because if you don't pay up within a certain amount of time, the fine goes up to £90!! I would stress that I was only doing this (writing) as there appeared no other form of redress other than a costly one (to us, one or - if the case wasn't heard the first time - two days off, plus the fine still possibly standing PLUS any other costs, however small, that IS costly!).

I also said I don't expect anything to come of it, even the courtesy of a reply but it will make us feel better.

Also I have never inferred that I felt my husband was being "set up" by anyone, in fact I have gone to pains to state that I believe it is an ERROR on the officer's part.

My problem is that the choices are not sufficient - as someone said earlier - the appeal system is only available to the rich.

Our choice now appears to be; pay now (for something you haven't done) or most likely pay even more later (for having the temerity to even suggest that police officers are human and may occasionally make mistakes).

That is not the definition of justice in any dictionary I've read lately.

Anyhow, I am very grateful for everyone's input and advice, it's been really appreciated. I don't think there's much more that can be said that will add anything so I guess it's time to sign off.

x

Lum

One thing that really bothers me..

In a civil case, a passenger in your car is not accepted as a witness, even if it's a hitchhiker who you have never met before in your life.

In a criminal case, which is supposedly held to a higher standard of evidence, two coppers in the same car. Two colleagues who work together daily, count as corroborating evidence.

How the hell do they explain that?

cyclonebri1

Assuming what he's told you is correct;

If it me I would fight it. This has happened to me.
It all depends on how he observed the aledged offence. If he was following or pulled up along side then his word will be taken.

In my case the local car pc was sat in a farm road 25 yds back from the main road with only about 30yds of main road visible to him. He must have had only a seconds view of any passing car.

I argued this, given that my car was passing him at 90 degrees, and was a fully laden estate car with no view through the side windows, (like a van) and was travelling at 40 mph.
I didn't claim he was lying, I sugested he had simply made a mistake
I won.:)

It depends on how you value your time and how incensed you are.

Lum

I dont even see how following could be valid.

In my car the seat belt exits the B pillar at a level slightly below my shoulder, so there would be no strap to be seen when looking from behind, unless it contrasted with my clothing, and I normally wear a black coat.

NeverAgain_2

The OP's claim 'the appeal system is only available to the rich' cannot go unchallenged.

Her husband's 'appeal' - a trial at magistrates - is free to the defendant.

The OP is making much of the cost of time off work.

If he's found not guilty, her husband can apply for a defendant's costs order.

There are times when justice comes at a price, but this isn't one of them.

Mankysteve

bap98189 wrote: »

I think it was quite right that the employer was prosecuted in that case.

OK he caught an employee stealing - that's indefensible but he should then have phoned the police and they would have dealt with it. Instead he assaulted him, tied him to a chair and threatened him, before marching him down the street with his hands tied. None of that is acceptable behaviour and he was quite rightly prosecuted IMHO.

the thing with that case was if you read the fully story rather than the tabloid one its not as clear cut as he nicked some money from the safe. There was a cheques and disgruntlements over money owed.

If he'd simply taken from the safe then that would have been a different situation. but thats another story.

knightstyle

Well you can win in this kind of situation. I went to court when my wife was wrongly accused of a similar offense. The policewoman was trying to show off to the young trainee PC and they both lied. My wife was too upset to go to court so I went and asked if I could address them, it was obvious that lies were told and the charges were dropped.