Panorama - 10:15 BBC1 this evening

tomstickland

I dont disagree with EVERYTHING that you said, it is after all hard to be wrong all the time.

Resorting to insults usually indicates a lack of intellectual rigour in an argument.

Case closed.

I think you mean "not willing to argue about it any more".

MSE is a financial web site and encompasses both money saving and money making. You've decided that it's a FACT that there are more people in debt than savers on here. From my observations I'd expect that not to be the case, but I don't have any FACTUAL evidence. Moreover I'd say that most of the posts in DFW are from post-lightbulb moment people who develop a savvy approach to money management.

You have identified one case of someone being lured into Casino gambling. I read of a woman who spent too much money on credit cards, leading to serious debt. That's one case too many, so I suggest that MSE remove all reference to credit cards.

People make money from stoozing. Some people spend money they can't afford on credit cards.
People make money from gambling loopholes. Some people have a gambling problem.
MSE advertises cheap drink offers. Some people have an alcohol problem.
People discuss smoking on MSE. Some people have a nicotine addiction.

It's a big scary world out there, and maintaining judgement and making rational decisions is something we all need to do.I think Martin's approach is fair; assume some personal responsibility, tell people about methods for improving your finances including any risks and then allow people to make their own decisions.

I had an interesting conversation with a counsellor about addictions once and she said to me "people who are addicted to something normally do it to fill a gap somewhere else in their life".

I don't know anyone who gambles, though I occasionally hear that someone put £5 or £10 on grand national. I had no knowledge (or interest) whatsoever in betting until I read up on matched betting and the business case.

Finally, there are functional recreational gamblers out there. People who put £5 per week on their favourite football team or whatever "for a bit of fun". It's akin to doing the national lottery or going to bingo (both rubbish ideas).

Twopints

Is [STRIKE]betting[/STRIKE] investing on the Stock Market classed as on-line gambling?

Tim_L

southernscouser wrote:

I took the advice from people to get all my debt on to 0% and do you know what? It proper shafted me! At the end of the intro periods I was paying higher interest rates than I was originally because I couldn't get accepted for new cards! :doh:

I think that to be fair the official site advice would be that you move your balance onto low life of balance cards rather than 0%, for precisely the reasons you encountered. You should only use 0% to reduce debt if you're comfortable that you can pay the amount off within the intro period.

Tim_L

Twopints wrote:

Is [STRIKE]betting[/STRIKE] investing on the Stock Market classed as on-line gambling?

This is where things get interesting.

Spreadbetting is by far the most tax efficient way of investing moderate amounts in equities. There is no CGT, and no trading charges. And because you don't have to stump up for the capital needed to buy shares (you just provide funding to cover shifts as far as can be reasonably anticipated), you can be earning 5% on your capital as well. So you can produce an investment that looks like a shares ISA using spreadbetting, with a 5% underlying ramp on capital, and which is completely free of tax. Knocks any tracker ISA I know of into a cocked hat and would beat most managed funds.

Now I gamble a lot, but I've still never quite got around to doing that. Too risk averse!

MSE_Martin

I'm going to use my prerogative and have the last word on this, then shut the thread as its risks decending into a slanging match.


My view is

1. This site is here for everyone to save money

2. It is to provide explanations as to all methods to do so

3. One of the main points (in fact its a chapter in the money diet) is 'Know Thyself' and implicit in that is understanding, education, know how you behave and take personal responsibility.

4. In the credit card articles, I suggest some people tart, but only if they can handle it, but most shift their debts to a life of balance card. Yet because life of balance is best for most, it doesn't mean the solution that is right for a substantial minority shouldn't be offered, and the tools given to people to decide which is right for them.

If people have been told the info but get it wrong, there is little that can be done, and I don't believe we should burn the books that tell them

5. Gambling is not MoneySaving

6. Taking money off companies who leaves loopholes is MoneySaving.

7. The intro offers board is here to stay. If it is true (and i'm dubious but will accept it) that it led one person into debt, then I find that truly horrible, but I do not believe it is irresponsible to talk about it.

Sadly that person did not read or understand the warnings, and that is a tradgedy, but this site is about providing info for people to access, if they choose to only listen to half of it, that is unfortunate - but I will not restrict access to the many hundreds and thousands who gain because one person made a mistake.

8. Yet none of this means I don't take seriously the concerns about gambling that have been raised. It is for this reason it is left in a niche board, without any main site article, and without appearing in the weekly email. Yet to take it off the site would do a disservice to many and to MoneySaving.`


I think we have rattled through all the points here now and this is best left shut.

All the best

Martin