Panorama - 10:15 BBC1 this evening

jhxmt

moneyman4u wrote:

I agree that you have a fundermental misunderstanding of the points being raised, nobody has said matched betting is bad or does not work.

FACT: This site has a higher level of people in debt than a site not concerned with dept, thats common sence

My apologies, but I don't feel that's a common sense fact - this site, as Martin has said and as others have said, is not necessarily concerned primarily with people in debt, but rather with people who wish to be more sensible with regards to money. I count myself among those, but I am not in debt. There are, I am certain, a great many people here who visit this site on a regular basis but who are not in debt.

FACT: MSE encourages people to join gambling sites so that they can matched bet

Unfortunately, that's untrue - MSE does not encourage people to do this at all. Indeed, the Matched Betting thread(s) are littered with warnings that people should not do this until they fully understand the procedures, until they are fully comfortable with them and until they are sure that they actually want to. If anything, they are discouraged from doing so.

FACT: Apart from matched betting you can also GAMBLE!! on those sites

Well, yes. But this is irrelevant. On eBay I can technically spend all my money on worthless crap - this does not mean that eBay should be hidden away because, potentially, I could go on there to sell something and end up buying stuff I don't need.

FACT: Gambling is very addictive, especially to those looking for a quick fix to financial problems as shown on panorama.

Yes, which is why the matched betters and matched betting threads emphasise, over and over, that people should not gamble, as it is not MoneySaving. Kindly read the threads involved to see this evidenced. People there know that gambling is addictive, which is why they are so dead set against anybody even trying it. Go ahead, post that you've made some money on a lucky bet on a horse. I can guarantee you'll get shouted down within minutes.

You cant argue with FACT, my point stands that there is nothing wrong with matched betting, however its place on this forum is questionable in the least.

Every forum's place is questionable. As others have said, 0% credit card offers are just as dangerous, particularly if you're absent-minded and forget to switch at the end of them. Should they be removed, too?

The final FACT is as shown earlier one person has already been a victim in just the way I describe, never touched a casino site before she came to MSE, joined a few to do some risk free offers and won money but became addicted and lost all her money. Point proved.

One person does not make a dangerous epidemic. I know of at least half a dozen people who have done matched betting and not succumbed to gambling addiction. Should I therefore claim that my point is proven six times over?

The FACT, as you put it, is that while matched betting takes place on gambling sites it is not gambling, and that gambling is in no way supported by MSE or by MSEers in general.

Stating that an indirect link to a gambling site for non-gambling related purposes is dangerous is something akin to wanting to ban eBay links because, as said above, technically somebody could get addicted to buying matchsticks. Or something equally foolish.

Edit: edited for spelling and grammar.

moneyman4u

Of the thousands of people who use this site, one person has become addicted to gambling. This proves nothing.

One who has admitted it, IMHO one is one too many, and you have to assume others will follow, especially as it all looks endorsed by Martin Lewis and MSE, I would not put my name to something like that, not in the current climate.

moneyman4u

jhxmt

others had said what you did, it was not right then, and still is not now.

bpyoung

moneyman4u wrote:

One who has admitted it, IMHO one is one too many, and you have to assume others will follow, especially as it all looks endorsed by Martin Lewis and MSE, I would not put my name to something like that, not in the current climate.

Well, don't then. It's not your website. If you don't like the way it's run, tough. There are plenty of other forums out there that would no doubt be delighted to have you on board.

Tim_L

moneyman4u wrote:

lol, are you saying that the phrase "You can gamble at a bookies" is not FACT, sorry anything else you said lost its validity after I read that.

No, I'm pointing out that you are not quoting facts but making an argument which had some factual content (and other content which was not factual but conjectural). You're being highly selective about the facts you introduce to support your argument. You can't use facts to demonstrate a point unless you introduce ALL supporting and contradicting facts, such as "Most people are not gambling addicts FACT; Most people who visit gambling sites do not end up addicted to gambling FACT; Most active members of the gambling board at MSE make over £500 easily FACT" and so on.

Incidentally, dismissing an entire reasoned argument based on a deliberate misreading of one point is a rhetorical trick known as an ad hominem attack, i.e. "such a man as Tim_L who contradicts a clear fact cannot possibly have anything valid to say, so we must ignore everything else he writes."

jhxmt

moneyman4u wrote:

others had said what you did, it was not right then, and still is not now.

Kindly elaborate. Points stated are:

* This site does not target those in debt.
* Matched betting is not gambling.
* Visiting a gambling site does not lead to gambling any more than visiting eBay to sell leads to unnecessary buying.
* Matched betting is not, in any way, endorsed or promoted by Martin or MSE.
* One example of gambling addiction does not necessitate all matched betters becoming gambling addicts.

I may be missing a post of yours, but I have not yet seen a solid response to the majority of those points. Thank you.

tomstickland

Tr&#64 wrote: »

Anybody who says there's 'risk free' money does not know anything worth knowing about gambling. If that were possible EVERYbody would be doing it.
Common sense should tell you there's no easy money in the long term. Ive said this before the only POSSIBLE winners are those who take the freebies then disappear when they're spent.
The only 'matched betting' agancies as far as i know are licensed exchanges like betfair and just remember for every matched bet there's a winner AND a loser, with the exchange taking a commission regardless from evry bet.

As usual you haven't bothered to understand what we are talking about.

Bookmakers have a "book percentage" and casinos have a "house edge" which means that they always make a profit from other people's gambling.
The exchanges take a comission, so they always make money too.
ie: you will lose money via gambling.

Matched betting is a simple method that turns a FREE bet offer into money without any risk. If the bet wins you make a profit. If the bet loses you make a profit.

The profit from matched betting either comes from the bookmaker (if the bet wins) or someone else on Betfair if the bet loses.

moneyman4u

Incidentally, dismissing an entire reasoned argument based on a deliberate misreading of one point is a rhetorical trick known as an ad hominem attack, i.e. "such a man as Tim_L who contradicts a clear fact cannot possibly have anything valid to say, so we must ignore everything else he writes."

I dont disagree with EVERYTHING that you said, it is after all hard to be wrong all the time.

I think the point has been made that its not as black and white as and clear cut as the

"Matched betting is risk free"

blurters like BPYoung are constantly harping on about, matched betting in a pure form is risk free, but then add in weak willed characters, dept, vulnerability etc etc etc and things are not so clear.

Case closed.

Tim_L

moneyman4u wrote:

lol, are you saying that the phrase "You can gamble at a bookies" is not FACT, sorry anything else you said lost its validity after I read that.

moneyman4u wrote:

I dont disagree with EVERYTHING that you said, it is after all hard to be wrong all the time.

make your mind up.

southernscouser

I felt I had to post on here even though I want my bloody lunch! :rolleyes:


I think it's fair to say that I'm a 'vunerable' person. I was £34,000+ in debt when I joined. I was (and still am) desperate to reduce my debt as quick as poss.

I took the advice from people to get all my debt on to 0% and do you know what? It proper shafted me! At the end of the intro periods I was paying higher interest rates than I was originally because I couldn't get accepted for new cards! :doh:

On that basis should we close the credit card board. And the loan board for that matter. After all thats what got me into this mess. Or is it? Could it possibly of been my own lack of financial discipline that got me in debt? :rolleyes:

I eventually got my head around matched betting. I've now made over £1,000 and am well on the way to £2k. Since then I've never gambled. I might have a tenner on the Grand National next year but it really is a mugs game! Matched Betting has taught me that you can never predict the result no matter how much of a 'dead cert' it is.

The real problem lies with the word betting. People automatically think it means gambling. To me there is a major difference.

So to those who claim vunerable people will fall into the trap well yes you're right. I'm living proof. I fell into the trap of matched betting and it's making me loads of risk free money. So much in fact that I reckon it will knock a year off my debt free date! :beer: