Panorama - 10:15 BBC1 this evening

cornerclose

This is a subject which causes heated debate time after time, probably mainly because the word "gambling" throws an automatic red alert switch in many people's minds. Martin has a big dilemma here - there is massive potential for exploiting a free money loophole, with more profit to be gained than from any other means on this site. But, as is rightly pointed out, the site is full of vulnerable people, many of whom are up to their eyes in debt and desperate for a way out. Gambling can be very tempting and very addictive.

I am fortunate not to be in debt. I owe that situation partly to this site, through its explanations of stoozing and matched betting, which I discovered in time to use these techniques to provide extra money to pay a large vet bill. For anyone who has a reasonably logical mind and who is prepared to put aside a small amount of spare money for a short time with decent rewards for a bit of methodical work, matched betting is great. For people scraping together every last penny to live off and pay off huge debts, who maybe have got into that situation through some lack of self control, I would say don't touch it with a barge pole.

I think it would be a shame if Martin removed the board from MSE because it has helped a lot of people. As he says, there are warnings for people to read. It is hardly his fault if people ignore them. I think he has got the balance about right.

[Deleted User]

cornerclose, it is the mention of vulnerable people that makes the gambling thread sit so uncomfortable with me

debbie42

moneyman4u wrote:

None of which answers the question
Should MSE introduce vunerable people to gambling sites, when there is a risk that a small % could spiral into uncontroled betting?

It doesn't actually introduce them. It makes people aware of the mechanism for taking advantage of introductory offers. Should this be completely swept under the carpet just because of these potential vulnerable people? Surely it's better that the potential pitfalls (and advantages) are openly discussed in a healthy fashion.

PhatDad

moneyman4u wrote:

None of which answers the question

As suggested before should wine offers be posted on here because of the chance an alcoholic who is one of the vulnerable reads the post.

The only reason why I even went onto the Gambling loophole thread was because it was on this site and Martin Lewis ethos of risky ways of making or saving money is not allowed on here.

Since the start of september I have made over £2000 from matched betting and have understood even more why gambling is so bad. In fact there are gamblers on the gambling loophole thread who have stopped gambling because matched betting has shown them just how much of a mug they were for gambling.

I would think that more people have been helped by the forum and more people been put off from gambling than people being sucked in to gambling.

In fact I would put money on the fact, however I would lay at Betfair.

Also, a suggestion to [EMAIL="Tr@ker"]Tr@ker[/EMAIL]. Whenever a matched betting thread appears on the site you seem to jump straight in and berate all of us that do it. To those of us that have taken the time to read up on matched betting you come across as ignorant. For those that havent' read the matched betting threads then you are possibly costing people their homes, cars or anythign else they need to pay off and leaving them to live in misery when they may not neccesarily need to.

I would not even consider going onto another forum such as stoozing etc and try and tell the poeple on there they are stupid just because I know several people that have landed themselves in loads of debt. I would first read the information until I understood it and then give my opinion. I am aware a member of your family was a gambler so I can understand your hatred for gambling however I implore you to spend the time reading the information on the matched betting section and then give your opinion.

In fact I and those on the board are more than welcome to take you through it and even stake and lay our own money so you can follow the procedure.

Should my family not get a very nice holiday to the USA next year, and loads of other people benefit from matched betting because of the rare chance someone may be introduced to gambling?

Tim_L

Oh come now. Why would you introduce vulnerable people to using 0% card offers to reduce credit card debt when it provides them with more credit and therefore the possibility of overspending? There is certainly a strong risk that a small percentage could spiral into further debt.

The point of this site is that it provides good common sense tactics that if applied correctly will result in savings or gains. Ultimately you have to trust to some extent in people's ability to look after their own interests. I don't think people who have taken the very considerable step of admitting publically they are in serious debt problems would be classed by me as vulnerable in any sense.

I spend a lot of time explaining why I have deleted posts that advocate methods of making money from gaming that play percentages instead of being risk free, and if anyone turns up (as they do) saying they have a free bet and asking what to punt it on, they will be met with a wall of other people expressing absolute horror that anyone would risk even a free bet for potentially no return.

moneyman4u

As suggested before should wine offers be posted on here because of the chance an alcoholic who is one of the vulnerable reads the post.

Its not relevant, this is not a forum for alcoholics, its primarily a forum for people with money problems, and on that forum there is a section to introduce people to gambling sites.

If this were a forum for alcoholics, the gambling section would be the equivalent of having a section about wine appreciation.

I'm not arguing that MB does not work, simply that on here its in the wrong place.

MSE_Martin

I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding here. The 'matched betting or intro offers board' has a strict - no gambling rule. That's the point, the fact the money is being made from a gambling company doesn't make it gambling - yet I think many people are confusing the concept.

Matched betting, like stoozing is a complex thing to do, but both done properly are without any risk. Now to say 'some people may get it wrong' therefore it shouldn't be done, would close this site down and leave us all sticking with the big four banks in pitiful current and savings accounts.

This site is about empowerment and loopholes and exploiting differences between betting companies odds in a mathematical way is a part of MoneySaving.

Its not relevant, this is not a forum for alcoholics, its primarily a forum for people with money problems, and on that forum there is a section to introduce people to gambling sites.

I think perhaps the above quote is the fundamental misunderstand, this site most certainly isn't about those with money problems. I've made a career fo not focusing on those with money problems - simply saying EVERYONE needs to be better with their cash whatever their situation.

There is a myth that most MoneySavers are in debt - actually this site is used by just as many savers, and savvy financial people. This site is the Consumer Revenge site, its job is to show people how to put more cash in their pocket and stop giving it to big companies. Those with debts have a board focused on dealing with it, so do savers, those looking to be mortgage free, those over 50, those who are students, those looking to invest or to insure. This site is for everyone to deal with their money issues.

When there's a cheap plasma TV on sale at Woolies for £399, this is a great saving for those who were planning to buy a £800 Plasma TV..... yet its a huge expense for those trying to pay off their debts and shouldn't be touched. That however isn't a reason for its not being on the site.

MoneySaving involved personal responsibility, it has to, no one else will take responsibility for us. This site explains who should do something, why, how it works, and what to be careful of. If people don't take the info or advice there is little that can be done, but I will not close parts of the site that are doing good - and are well explained - for the risk that someone will take it the wrong way.

The key is making sure people understand the concepts. Matched betting is NOT gambling, there is no risk, if it is done correctly. If you don't understand this, then forgive me that's because you don't know what matched betting is and therefore should not be doing it.

Martin

PhatDad

Oh come on, how many here are actually vulnerable? I see plenty of people here who have been vulnerable and gotten themselves into trouble but they have seen the light and have now become stronger people here for advice on how to sort their debt out.

Ok instead of wine to alcoholics lets use Tim's comment. Why with so many vulnerable people do they have a section on credit cards. Do the wrong thing there and you are in debt again. If you are truly vulnerable then you'll use the advice to clock up more debt.

Maybe dropping the nanny state and nanny everything else will allow people to realise that actually at the end of the day 'I am to blame for my own problems' and the rest of us who are safe to visit gambling sites can do so.

Hereward

moneyman4u wrote:

Its not relevant, this is not a forum for alcoholics, its primarily a forum for people with money problems, and on that forum there is a section to introduce people to gambling sites.

If this were a forum for alcoholics, the gambling section would be the equivalent of having a section about wine appreciation.

I'm not arguing that MB does not work, simply that on here its in the wrong place.

Incorrect, this is a forum for money saving, not just for those with money problems. This board (section of the forum), not thread, is about debt reduction and many people that most on here may have money problems, but the advice is equally applicable to those who do not have money problems. As Tim_L states would you not recommend to someone to switch their debt to a 0% offer to help reduce the interest payments?

debbie42

moneyman4u wrote:

Its not relevant, this is not a forum for alcoholics, its primarily a forum for people with money problems, and on that forum there is a section to introduce people to gambling sites.

I certainly don't view the MSE as being "primarily a forum for people with money problems". Not even the DWD forum itself, and it's patronizing to suggest that just because you may be in debt that you must be weak or vulnerable, or unable to do basic maths sufficently competently to take advantage of the offers that are out there.